HiFiMan Shangri-La Jr (New $8000 Electrostat)

[hardpike]

Hi
I must be the rare one i do own and like the dekoni lambskin ones. It is true that brain needs a couple of days to adapt, but I hear more 3D and detail. Would maybe try these ones.
I often change between denoki and the originals, I have substituted the crappy plastic rings (I hate it) for some velcro system similar to R10 one (easily reverted) so it is quick and i am happy with it

 

[SolarCetacean]

Curiosity got the better of me and I pulled out my miniDSP EARS to measure the new pads. Comparison against stock pads (from an old measurement, so I have a different set of stock earpads now) below. Measurements were volume-matched at 80 dB at 300 Hz.

I'm surprised by the lack of difference in the measured bass. In fact, the ZMF pads have worse bass extension than stock. The ZMF pads sound bassier. It may just be the upper bass boost adding more body and slam to percussion.

The change to the midrange almost completely linearizes it; this is a compensated measurement to miniDSP's HPN compensation curve. When I listen to a sine sweep, I don't hear any serious peaks or dips from 200 Hz all the way up to 5 KHz. The 5.5K dip is mitigated to an extent.

There's still a noticeable 7.2K dip to my ears, unlike what the graph shows. I suspect that's just a pinna artifact on my ears. Then above that there's a bit more treble energy in the 10-15K region. I don't actually hear that notch at 9-10K in a sine sweep; I suspect it's a rig interaction.

Overall, these are good pads. I like how they maintain the general sound of the SGL Jr while filling in parts of the sound that may have been weaker. The midrange is certainly more present than with the stock pads and it does sound a bit more like the X9000's midrange. I just can't shake the feeling that the sound has become a bit aggressive and in-my-face.

 

[hardpike]

And now I bought these pads....

 

[hardpike]

Got them and I love them
Thank you for posting about them!

 

[hardpike]

Nirvana

 

[SolarCetacean]

This evening, I found that a hair had somehow gotten past the earpad mesh (I returned to the stock pads) and under the metal mesh covering the driver, so I couldn't just brush it out. I had to do a small surgery to remove it. I loosened all of the screws holding the earpad mounting ring and removed the three on the far side of the photo. The screws are longer than I expected them to be. Removing just the three screws allowed me to lift up the ring and gently brush the hair out from under the mesh. Replacing the ring was quite simple afterwards. You just need a very small Philips-head screwdriver; I used one that was built into a pen and it was the perfect size. I'm back to listening and no harm was done!

Also, I just received a Stax SRM-727 amp and to my surprise, I quite like the SGL Jr with the amp in its stock form. The 727 was widely criticized for the choice to not include the output stage in the feedback loop, which makes the bass bloomier and less controlled. However, the bass bloom doesn't really hurt the Jr's sound and adds some body to the bass. I then found a post in this thread from years ago where AudioCats reconfigured their KGSS to use 727-style feedback and liked its overall effect on the Jr. Hmm, I plan to do the feedback mod on the 727 to place the output stage into the feedback loop, but I may consider adding switches to allow me to toggle between the stock local feedback scheme and global feedback from the mod.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

How is the instrumental timbre on the Jr? The Stax 009S has the most natural timbre out of all my estats and I am looking for another estat with good timbre.

 

[SolarCetacean]

How is the instrumental timbre on the Jr? The Stax 009S has the most natural timbre out of all my estats and I am looking for another estat with good timbre.

The Jr is pretty similar to many of the high-end Hifimans, so it has Hifiman timbre. It does not sound like a Stax. If the 009 is your timbre reference, I think you probably won't find an upgrade in the Jr.

I'd characterize the timbre on the Jr as "delicate". There's a boost to the upper treble which is combined with a softening of treble attack which makes percussion like cymbals sound more like they're tapped rather than hit. They make more of a "tShhhh" sound instead of a "TSS" sound that the Stax renders. On brass instruments, the Jr doesn't have the same "brassiness" or "metallic" timbre as the Stax L700, it's thinner and more restrained. String instruments have less "grunt" and more "squeak", like of the bow being drawn across the strings rather than the resonances of the instrument's body. Overall, it's like a lighter-sounding Susvara.

 

[BassicScience]

The Jr is pretty similar to many of the high-end Hifimans, so it has Hifiman timbre. It does not sound like a Stax. If the 009 is your timbre reference, I think you probably won't find an upgrade in the Jr.

Yeah, I wasn't going to comment, because I owned the 009S briefly and didn't find its timbre much to my liking. In fairness, it did sound better off of a BHSE at The Source AV, so any discussion of estats probably needs to be qualified with the chain in use, IMO.

My description of the SGL Jr. sound: start with a Susvara, add a measure of extra resolution and a dash of sizzle in the highs, and roll off the sub-bass. The latter issue can be addressed to a degree with a 3 dB bass shelf below 100 Hz, but you still won't get the thump of a planar. In spite of these deficiencies, I still find the SGL Jr. to be a very enjoyable listen, although I generally wouldn't recommend it as someone's sole headphone. Ultimately, HFM's tunings just engage me more in the music than do STAX's, even when they have discernible weaknesses, as in the case of the Junior. But that's a strictly a personal preference, and YMMV obviously.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Yeah, I wasn't going to comment, because I owned the 009S briefly and didn't find its timbre much to my liking. In fairness, it did sound better off of a BHSE at The Source AV, so any discussion of estats probably needs to be qualified with the chain in use, IMO.

My description of the SGL Jr. sound: start with a Susvara, add a measure of extra resolution and a dash of sizzle in the highs, and roll off the sub-bass. The latter issue can be addressed to a degree with a 3 dB bass shelf below 100 Hz, but you still won't get the thump of a planar. In spite of these deficiencies, I still find the SGL Jr. to be a very enjoyable listen, although I generally wouldn't recommend it as someone's sole headphone. Ultimately, HFM's tunings just engage me more in the music than do STAX's, even when they have discernible weaknesses, as in the case of the Junior. But that's a strictly a personal preference, and YMMV obviously.

Thanks for your input.

I have both the 009 and 009S, the timbre on the 009S is greatly improved especially with acoustical guitars compared to the older 009 and the CRBN has very bad plasticy timbre so I want to get an additional estat with a more natural sound. I already have the HEKSE which has great timbre and the 009S is right behind it but with a lot more clarity so that offsets that timbre differences between the two for me.

Which genres are good with the Jr?

 

[BassicScience]

Thanks for your input.

Sure, my pleasure.

I have both the 009 and 009S, the timbre on the 009S is greatly improved especially with acoustical guitars compared to the older 009 and the CRBN has very bad plasticy timbre so I want to get an additional estat with a more natural sound. I already have the HEKSE which has great timbre and the 009S is right behind it but with a lot more clarity so that offsets that timbre differences between the two for me.

Which genres are good with the Jr?

I find that jazz and classical are my preferred genres for estats in general, with the Junior being no exception. With a bass shelf, I also enjoy IDM/electronica on estats because you can really make out the nuances in the production. Give me a planar (or an Immanis) for most genres of rock, however!

EDIT: Since you like the timbre of the HEKSE, the Junior may well be worth an audition.

 

[hardpike]

Trying the last psvane top of the line.... Wonderful sounding tubes

 

[SolarCetacean]

Trying the last psvane top of the line.... Wonderful sounding tubes

They look cool too! I'm curious if you have any specifics about how those tubes sound vs the ones you used before or the stock tubes.

I listened to the Shang Jr on its own amp at the Upscale Audio booth at CanJam NYC last month, and I must say I was not impressed with the amp at all. It made the Jr sound very thin and shrill, lacking in bass quantity and impact, with sharpness throughout the treble. It was also very weak and I got it to clip on some live-recorded piano + vocal tracks, which I've never heard the Jr do on any other amp. The booth had an iFi Gryphon DAC feeding the amp, which is a bit of an unusual pairing and probably done for shipping practicalities rather than optimal synergy, but I don't think it did the Jr combo any favors. Now, since it was a demo unit, it might be old and the tubes are no longer performing as they should, and maybe the Jr headphones had worn pads or driver units, but if I had heard that combo prior to buying the Shang Jr, I may never have bought it. To me, it was like someone wanted the Shang Jr to sound more like the Beyerdynamic DT1990 with really sizzly treble.

A more general update for anyone viewing this thread: for a bit over two months, the Shangri-La Jr was the only estat in my house as my X9000 was sent off for repair. During this time, I got a new amp, the Linear Tube Audio Z10e, and I really like how the Jr sounds on it. In a previous post (up this page), I mentioned how I enjoyed the stock SRM-727 with the Jr; the looser bass of the 727 (due to lacking global feedback) synergized well with the Jr's intrinsic tuning. Well, the Z10e is an all-tube amp that employs no feedback and it fills that synergy for the SGL Jr. I performed the feedback mod on my 727, which makes it perform much better with the X9000, and it's still good for the Jr, but then I didn't have that optimal amp for the Jr. The Z10e adds a good amount of body to the bass and lower midrange on the Jr while taming the treble a bit; it actually measures with about 0.5 dB less in the very upper treble (18 KHz) and it makes the Jr sound even more spacious. It doesn't have the boominess that the stock 727 did, so it only adds body, richness, and spaciousness which I think is the perfect boost for the SGL Jr. I will say that I'm not sure if the Z10e would be worth it if the Jr is your one and only headphone as you could probably find a dedicated estat that does similar things for less, but I like the versatility of the Z10e in driving estats, regular headphones, and speakers.

 

[hardpike]

Ey
Yes I remember I did read your comment.
For how you describe the sound, it looks to me that the amp maybe was not properly biased. It is the kind of sound I perceive when it isn't. Tubes being old also maybe a factor.
A good tunned shangri-la jr amp it is supposed to sound close to a blue hawaii, but I never had the opportunity to listen to it.
These tubes are the most bass and most 3D that I have tried... Really lovimg them (and ordering more pairs). For me an improvement over the stock ones.
I have limited experience with other amps... I just have a srm-3 (treated by Mjölnir audio) which sounds very fine but lacks bass and 3D wonder...
I listen 98% classical music