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HIFIMAN Releases New Flagship DAP "R2R2000"

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by Edric Li, Dec 22, 2017.
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  1. kvik
    Regarding the SHDC Bluetooth protocol, outside of Hifiman’s website I can’t find any reference to this protocol, is it a proprietary implementation (maybe codec)?
  2. David Kleinfeld
    With bluetooth function activated i just tried and it lasted 4.5 hours approximately. However after about 3 hours , the player proposed me to switch to Eco Mode which I did. I understand that Eco uses less power and that the sound quality should be less according to the User Guide. This said it would be interesting to know in practice if it is just a decrease of the output power or whether it affects how the sound is otherwise processed because with iems like andromedas mere power reduction would not appear to impact so much the sound quality as in Hifi Mode I am already using less than half the power available in Super Low Gain mode.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  3. SteveOliver
    Do you mean LHDC?

  4. kvik
    According to Hifiman’s website it’s called SHDC, however in the smartphone App description it’s called LHDC. I am aware the latter is a Huawei proprietary codec (developed by Savitech), though the information available about HWA/LHDC is rather superficial.

    Apparently LHDC is “divided into LHDC Portable, LHDC Standard and LHDC Good, which can be set to 400kbps, 560kbps and 900kbps respectively, the latter being nearly lossless and Hi-Res capable”. The HWA certification grading itself also states three different levels, with Gold level capable of 24bit/48kHz (and above) playback, and Platinum level capable of 24bit/96kHz (and above).

    As Hifiman is listed on on the HWA-LHDC website as an adopter, I assume they are in fact using the LHDC codec. In the RMAF impression thread someone stated “used with an iPhone app to receive high res music files by bluetooth that are compressed by the iPhone app and then expanded and decoded by the R2R2000 DAC. This way it can bypass the iPhone's AAC BT transmitter and send CD quality music, as well as working like a standard AAC BT audio codec receiver and amp.”

    With iPhone only able to transmit AAC or SBC, it seems AAC is used as container/carrier for the LHDC compression and encoding/decoding itself. A research paper states AAC is fundamentally hi-res capable, so I assume HWA/LHDC in some way make use of this inherent capability.

    I have no experience with Android, so the above only relates to iPhone. Also, I am far from being an expert, basically I was just curious how Hifiman managed to transmit hi-res to the player using bluetooth.
  5. David Kleinfeld
    If I may add concerning Android, it works flawlessly with the XDP-300R which is using android UI. It's very hard to tell any difference between the files played directly from the R2R2000 or from the XDP-300R and sent to the R2R2000 and the changes in track are instantaneous so there is no buffer time whatsoever which would translate some kind of compression decompression process. Also interesting to note that the R2R2000 controls in bluetooth mode the volume of the source android device.
  6. dhc0329
    As for me r2r2k could have been most favorite player of all if it was completely self sufficient considering its
    tinest form factor advantage and sonic execellence. Making it this small yet requiring us to carry another device
    for its full functionality defeats the purpose of being small. I still dont get what this device is aiming for..

    I wish I could take out the wonder TI dac chip out from r2r2k and put it into sp1000m to have it work..:)
    quantumrush likes this.
  7. David Kleinfeld
    I understand your point of view but I think both ways can reasonably be argued.

    Hifiman’s previous UI on 901s was already very minimalist and indeed lacking in many aspects but the device was also bulky and heavy. It had some other hardware quirks such as the swappable battery and Amp module. Most importantly it sounded great and I am not sure for others but I bought it simply because at that time when comparing it too other DAPs I found it had the sound which I preferred.

    What I guess concerning R2R2K is that Hifiman must have been aware of their limits when it comes to UI and that anyway their clientele focuses more on sound. Succeeding to produce a device that small that runs in balanced mode on 2 R2R dacs and being able to use your phone (which you would anyway bring with you) to operate it remotely is a practical approach to solve the Hifiman UI issue. I may be wrong but I bet a LG phone with HiRes capabilities bundled with a R2R2K may be on par or lighter than a SP1000 alone.

    It is still possible to use the internal UI of the R2R2K to play sounds from the SD card as a standalone unit but it is just not a very good experience unless your folders are very well organized and you don’t have long list of names to go through. Before pulling the trigger on R2R2K I was also considering the tera player but which is now advertised for nearly twice what i paid for R2R2K whereas the Tera has no screen, no support of most files format and no balanced output nor wireless connectivity.

    If I were to improve something on the R2R2K it would be in priority the battery capacity and it would have been perfect if they could have made the battery swappable like on previous models.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
    dhc0329 likes this.
  8. twister6 Contributor
    How long does a battery last in your R2R2k, and under what play conditions (file type, gain, BAL vs SE, volume level)?
  9. dhc0329
    Actually as for me a short run-time and lack of physical skip button were the main reason I decided to finally apart with this but I still miss its sounds :)
    With balance/flac @ 16/44/high gain volume at around 35% (higher vol if at low gain)/HIFI mode//Bluetooth & WIFI off/minimal key operation = barely passes 5 hours mark
  10. T.R.A.N.C.E.
    Hifiman going back to their roots, love it.
  11. decur
    IMG_1125.JPG IMG_1126.JPG IMG_1126.JPG so, while at rocky mountain audiofest a couple weeks ago(can jam) i was very interested in hearing the new hifiman r2r 2000 portable dac/amp.
    i wanted a player in which i can stream from my iPhone to a small portable. i wanted a high quality player,primarilly for using with tidal,im pretty much ok listening to 16/44 flac.
    at rmaf,i tried the r2r with my most treasured iems,jh audio lola's. i was not prepared, for the amazing sound coming thru them. pretty much the best synergy, out of any combinations i have ever owned or currently own. i am a big fan of the burr brown 1704k,as it is one of the most musical, and sweet sounding off the shelf chip ever made. no matter what genre of music i played, i experienced no brightness or shrillness, something i have experienced with most(majority)of daps i have heard in the current marketplace. especially the ess sabre based portables. whether it be pink floyd,dave brubeck,sir colin davis(lso) classical cuts all tracks sounded rich, and vinyl like.
    i also tried r2r with the new hifiman he1k v3(high efficiency new model) and there is no doubt in my mind that hifiman must have tuned them together. like my jh audio lola,the he1k v3 listening was breathtaking, and i emphasize, just pure pleasure combo that can be listened to for hours, with no fatigue!!!
    so,here i am at home, listening via the r2r thru my vinnie rossi new L2 preamp and mono block combo, via my gamut rs5i speakers.
    I'm listening to kenny burrell(the first blue note sessions) streaming tidal from my iPhone via bluetooth and nothing but rich, detailed,transparent music coming thru my gamuts.
    the hifiman is in good company, with my L2 pre amp dac, my tim paravicini dac 4,and my emm labs da2
    i can highly recommend the hifiman r2r 2000,most important is to let your ears be the judge!
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  12. NaiveSound
  13. decur
    I have the nw-wm1z walkman that i use with the sony mdr-z1r headphones and this pairing to my ears is very good synergy,as it should be,since sony tuned them together.
    The hifiman he1000se(v3) and the r2r-2000 player to my ears has the same synergy as the sony pairing mentioned.
    As far as comparing the s.q. of both these daps,to me,it really depends what headphones you are using with each.
    Its all about synergy,as far as i am concerned. They are both really”great” sounding players
    They are different horses for courses.
    I will say that if i had to pick a “stranded on a deserted island” portable headphone rig,i would choose the r2r-2000 with my jh audio Lolas
    The r2r just has this emotional connection to the music,that the sony somewhat lacks
    NaiveSound likes this.
  14. twister6 Contributor
    You are not worried about being stranded on deserted island, listening to hi-res music with 5hr vs 25hr battery? :wink:

    But I do know what you mean about synergy, and it's true that some manufacturers use their own sources during fine-tuning of the monitors. I'm actually really curious to hear R2R2k. Also, wondering how does it pair up with sensitive iems, like Andromeda.
    rcoleman1 likes this.
  15. Deftone
    Keep up man, all desert islands have fast charge points installed now.
    514077 likes this.
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