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HIFIMAN Releases New Flagship DAP "R2R2000"

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by Edric Li, Dec 22, 2017.
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  1. Whitigir
    Actually. The best part of an FPGA is that it can be programmed to do whatever and whenever. My AGD R2R7 has been through so many firmware by now. Don’t see how that can’t be done on R2R2K. But with every firmware, there is a huge differences though. Hence, why I said firmware is very important to R2R and FPGA, given that the implementations and designs are optimized.

    What bits depth is this unit capable of ?
     
  2. CJG888
    Wasn’t the 801 similarly R2R?
     
  3. bflat
    True, FPGA are field programable, but how it gets programmed is variable. Chord chooses one-way programming so their code can not be extracted, but can't be upgraded either. Schiit can upgrade firmware, but only if you send the unit to their facility. I would not hold my breath that Hifiman has enabled FPGA reprogramming by end users. Any firmware is likely just OS updates. Pure speculation on my part though. Personally I hope they can't reprogram the FPGA. Last thing I want is pay $2500 today and wait years for them to get the sound right. I think Chord got it right. Rather wait for the FPGA code to be perfected before selling.
     
    hqssui, Deftone and 514077 like this.
  4. dhc0329
    Just before taking off for vacation I ordered r2r200 on amazon hoping to receive the product when I get back but i received an email from hifiman to cancel the order because they need to update the firmware before the release.
    Are they ready with the final product? Not sure why they are putting an ad on amazon if they aren`t ready yet.
    I will put an order again this weekend to see if they can ship.
     
    quantumrush and jasonho like this.
  5. Whitigir
    Firmware is the most important for any FPGA implementations. Who knows how good HFM does, but if it is cheap, it doesn’t usually sound good
     
    jasonho likes this.
  6. twister6 Contributor
    FW is typically user upgradeable and usually not a showstopper for a hardware release since a user can upgrade it down the road. Makes me wonder if they need to replace/recall something or if this is not a common fw update.
     
  7. Whitigir
    FPGA firmware update is more complicated to Execute. But you are right, Resistor Ladder isn’t easy to master, unlike a few electrolytes and a diaphragm with some trchflex to create 5-6k products :D
     
    jasonho likes this.
  8. bflat
    FPGA generally use JTAG interface for programming. While there are USB to JTAG adapters, I can't see Hifiman adding the USB to JTAG circuitry within the real estate of the R2R2000 PCB. Just to give you an idea of how much circuitry and cost, here is a standalone USB to JTAG adapter:

    https://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/hw-usb-ii-g.html

    Back on topic - while we only have a few data points from our community, I have yet to hear anyone saying this is even remotely ready for production. Given Hifiman's history, we are not likely to see a "finished" product until R2R2000 V2 is announced. I am not trying to be mean, I really wanted the current R2R2000 to be everything that the marketing pages say, but I just don't trust the hype. I hate to see the remaining supply of the R2R chips go to waste too.

    Now compare all this to Schiit. Not only are their products finished at launch, but the day the products are announced, they are ready for sale!
     
  9. Whitigir
    Totally agreed, but adding JTAG isn’t easily done in portable form either, is it ?
     
  10. twister6 Contributor
    Since I don't have any background knowledge of R2R inner working/controls, I will just assume you guy know what you are talking about in terms of FPGA requirements :wink: But if we are talking about programming devices in a jtag chain, depending on a hardware design they should have some header on pwb (typically 10pin or 14pin) to connect external jtag usb cable for programming of fpga config PROM from a computer. Of course, it's all a speculation, but if indeed there is a requirement to update FPGA image, then it's definitely not user upgradeable, but rather will have to be done at manufacturing or some tech lab facility.
     
  11. Whitigir
    It can still be done like you said. Just need the incorporated circuitry and a header then a USB Blaster. I don’t all the time on my desktop R2R7. But that means the portable player would be very bulky and huge with a big header stuck out :D. So, I don’t think HFM is going to do that. More like they will release it once and leave it as is
     
  12. bflat
    Yes, that's my assumption too and also my main concern about rushing this into production.
     
    omniweltall and Whitigir like this.
  13. bflat
    Well, I'm out. Probably will go with Sony WM1z. In addition to the questions on production readiness, R2R2000 is lacking the following (confirmed with Hifiman support):
    • No playlist import
    • No Apt-x, No LDAC
    • BT receiver only, no transmitter
    With the recent announced Sony firmware coming in the fall, this is exactly what I was waiting for. After going through so many DAPs, I have a pretty specific set of things that I must have. My previous SP1000 was close, but lacked battery life, no BT receiver, no album artist sorting, and uses rotary dial. I also have given up on Hugo 2 Go given the software issues on the Mojo Poly.
     
  14. dhc0329
    Does anyone know if this device has random/shuffle play option going through root/sub directories? It would be nice if it has recent files play option like AK.
    I always ended up taking LPG over SP1000 to gym due to size. SP1000 is just too big to carry around. If r2r2k sounds just as good as lpg I will keep the device. I am awaiting for them to release the final product to order.

    I think HFM has a great concept and innovation but it seems they are 5% short. I wish Sony can acquire it and make it happen for headfiers :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
    quantumrush and CJG888 like this.
  15. dhc0329
    Just been informed by HFM this device is not a portable DAP but only a streaming device and USB DAC. It has SD card slot but only for a firmware update.
    Basically you can't play songs stored in SD card, so they stated. This thing only plays the songs streaming from your mobile phone over Bluetooth.
    After reading over 20 pages of comments here I have not realized such. Not sure what HFM's trying to achieve with R2R2K..
    $2.5K streaming device needing mobile device to function as a player. Not sure why they remove the regular DAP functionality.
    As for USB DAC it doesn't have to be this small but just need to sound good.
     
    quantumrush likes this.
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