Hifiman HM1000: Worlds first Quad PCM 1704 DAP
Oct 26, 2020 at 9:04 AM Post #121 of 585
got a case for it
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my impressions after several weeks of ownership - R2R is the real deal. The depth, wide staging, holographic quality & even micro detail (which I think is due to the added depth), while still having that smooth, organic analog sound, is something you simply need to experience for yourself to appreciate. It's breathed new life into my old music collection.
However, this device is not without flaws. Biggest one (and it may be a deal-breaker for many) is it somehow brings out sibilance in certain frequencies, most notably in cymbal crashes. It's not egregiously bad unless the recording quality is poor, or the mix is bad, but its still noticeable enough to take me out of the music when it rears its ugly head. Also I get audible noisefloor between notes on quieter tracks... again it depends on the mix on how noticeable it is. There is a gain switch with 3 settings - ultra low, low, and high. Even in ultra-low I still get some of the characteristics I mentioned, but less pronounced. High is obviously more pronounced noise, but not an egregious amount... and I find in high gain the benefits in increased bass extension outweigh the additional noise. I tend to stay in high gain unless I'm listening to a track that brings out those flaws I mention.
So you gotta think, this thing is roughly $800, and has some pretty glaring issues, as I highlight here. But its also the only portable R2R dac/amp on the market, so it's expected to come with some compromises. I wonder if their uber expensive gold model exhibits similar characteristics (I'd hope not).
Despite the flaws I mentioned, I take it on the go with me on a daily basis, and it's taken my mobile listening experience to another level. The combo of the depth/width/& holographic imaging, combined with that tube-like analog sound, in a mobile package, it's just a pure joy. The size slips perfectly into my front pocket, or a jacket pocket (depending on what I'm wearing). The bt quality is so good I don't need to worry about awkward usb cables. Phone goes in one pocket, DAC in the other. It's just too bad I can't enjoy my entire music collection due to the sibilance/noise floor that pops up in certain tracks. Despite price and flaws, I'm still keen to rec this thing, just bc it provides such an incredibly unique mobile listening experience. If only hifiman could get the noise issues under control (in fact i plan to reach out to them to check if my model has the new power supply that supposedly addresses noise complaints).

This thing is also rare as hell. It's a challenge to get even inside China, let alone outside. But I encourage anyone with the balls to deal with taobao to consider this as the only mobile R2R dac that's not absurdly priced. I'll reach out to hifiman in the meantime and see what they say about my unit...
 
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Oct 27, 2020 at 6:55 AM Post #122 of 585
Thanks a lot for your detailed impressions and the pictures! Seems that Hifiman have ironed out some of the R2R2000 (Red) weaknesses and also tuned it slightly different in the treble. Since I am sometimes wishing for a bit more treble sparkle for some genres with the latter one, while keeping its R2R - natural tone, the new tuning might be for me ☺️

Can you explain the trade in program a little bit? Is it by Hifiman themseves? So you sent in your R2R2000 and got the HM1000 cheaper? How much cheaper? And is this only possible within China?

got a case for it
lkwLy4J.jpg


DPX7hV5.jpg


my impressions after several weeks of ownership - R2R is the real deal. The depth, wide staging, holographic quality & even micro detail (which I think is due to the added depth), while still having that smooth, organic analog sound, is something you simply need to experience for yourself to appreciate. It's breathed new life into my old music collection.
However, this device is not without flaws. Biggest one (and it may be a deal-breaker for many) is it somehow brings out sibilance in certain frequencies, most notably in cymbal crashes. It's not egregiously bad unless the recording quality is poor, or the mix is bad, but its still noticeable enough to take me out of the music when it rears its ugly head. Also I get audible noisefloor between notes on quieter tracks... again it depends on the mix on how noticeable it is. There is a gain switch with 3 settings - ultra low, low, and high. Even in ultra-low I still get some of the characteristics I mentioned, but less pronounced. High is obviously more pronounced noise, but not an egregious amount... and I find in high gain the benefits in increased bass extension outweigh the additional noise. I tend to stay in high gain unless I'm listening to a track that brings out those flaws I mention.
So you gotta think, this thing is roughly $800, and has some pretty glaring issues, as I highlight here. But its also the only portable R2R dac/amp on the market, so it's expected to come with some compromises. I wonder if their uber expensive gold model exhibits similar characteristics (I'd hope not).
Despite the flaws I mentioned, I take it on the go with me on a daily basis, and it's taken my mobile listening experience to another level. The combo of the depth/width/& holographic imaging, combined with that tube-like analog sound, in a mobile package, it's just a pure joy. The size slips perfectly into my front pocket, or a jacket pocket (depending on what I'm wearing). The bt quality is so good I don't need to worry about awkward usb cables. Phone goes in one pocket, DAC in the other. It's just too bad I can't enjoy my entire music collection due to the sibilance/noise floor that pops up in certain tracks. Despite price and flaws, I'm still keen to rec this thing, just bc it provides such an incredibly unique mobile listening experience. If only hifiman could get the noise issues under control (in fact i plan to reach out to them to check if my model has the new power supply that supposedly addresses noise complaints).

This thing is also rare as hell. It's a challenge to get even inside China, let alone outside. But I encourage anyone with the balls to deal with taobao to consider this as the only mobile R2R dac that's not absurdly priced. I'll reach out to hifiman in the meantime and see what they say about my unit...
 
Oct 27, 2020 at 11:12 AM Post #123 of 585
Thanks a lot for your detailed impressions and the pictures! Seems that Hifiman have ironed out some of the R2R2000 (Red) weaknesses and also tuned it slightly different in the treble. Since I am sometimes wishing for a bit more treble sparkle for some genres with the latter one, while keeping its R2R - natural tone, the new tuning might be for me ☺

Can you explain the trade in program a little bit? Is it by Hifiman themseves? So you sent in your R2R2000 and got the HM1000 cheaper? How much cheaper? And is this only possible within China?
Yes, I did read about the R2R2000 red having a relaxed treble. I can say that this has definitely been addressed on the HM1000. Treble is excellent. I have talked with folks that have owned R2R dacs, and apparently (hopefully in my case) the sibilance is normal for the first 80 or so hours. It needs to be burned in, and over time it will start to reduce. Let's hope so in my case. I'm letting play some pink noise at night. I'll update this thread if I see any improvements.

As for the trade-in program, it was directly through an authorized reseller. For 3300 RMB (~$500 USD), you could upgrade the R2R2000 red to a HM1000 red.
Here's the link (leyin audio is the reseller) -
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...=2&is_b=1&rn=033dd9611d0ec5007f80bebe4eb0b69b
As mentioned earlier in the thread, I received mine on xianyu, which is basically chinese ebay, from a seller that went through the upgrade process, then promptly sold it (it still had original plastic wrap and everything).
 
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Dec 23, 2020 at 9:58 AM Post #124 of 585
Yes, I did read about the R2R2000 red having a relaxed treble. I can say that this has definitely been addressed on the HM1000. Treble is excellent. I have talked with folks that have owned R2R dacs, and apparently (hopefully in my case) the sibilance is normal for the first 80 or so hours. It needs to be burned in, and over time it will start to reduce. Let's hope so in my case. I'm letting play some pink noise at night. I'll update this thread if I see any improvements.

As for the trade-in program, it was directly through an authorized reseller. For 3300 RMB (~$500 USD), you could upgrade the R2R2000 red to a HM1000 red.
Here's the link (leyin audio is the reseller) -
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...=2&is_b=1&rn=033dd9611d0ec5007f80bebe4eb0b69b
As mentioned earlier in the thread, I received mine on xianyu, which is basically chinese ebay, from a seller that went through the upgrade process, then promptly sold it (it still had original plastic wrap and everything).

Interesting indeed, if I only knew it in advance, I'd probably go directly from this option instead of R2R2K, albeit it seems a pretty scarce resource so far the HM1000.. :)

Btw, I don't get if it has a dedicated Android app or what? I mean different from the dreadful "Hifiman Remote" one.. screenshot doesn't seem to be the same.

1608735433156.png
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Dec 23, 2020 at 6:18 PM Post #125 of 585
Interesting indeed, if I only knew it in advance, I'd probably go directly from this option instead of R2R2K, albeit it seems a pretty scarce resource so far the HM1000.. :)

Btw, I don't get if it has a dedicated Android app or what? I mean different from the dreadful "Hifiman Remote" one.. screenshot doesn't seem to be the same.

1608735433156.png 1608735508559.png
HM1000 has it's own device specific App

Q-6
 
Dec 23, 2020 at 11:39 PM Post #126 of 585
Interesting indeed, if I only knew it in advance, I'd probably go directly from this option instead of R2R2K, albeit it seems a pretty scarce resource so far the HM1000.. :)

Btw, I don't get if it has a dedicated Android app or what? I mean different from the dreadful "Hifiman Remote" one.. screenshot doesn't seem to be the same.

1608735433156.png 1608735508559.png
there's a dedicated app, but unfortunately it's the dreadful "hifiman remote" app that is still in beta. It sucks. Though the version that is built for the HM1000 is only obtainable via special channels. I had to get the apk from the chinese hifiman wechat group. It's not available on the app store or anywhere online that I could find...
 
Dec 25, 2020 at 6:16 PM Post #127 of 585
Believe Hifiman is holding off with the HM1000 for the west due the differences in mindset due to the poor reception of the R2R2K and criticism by those that didn't really understand the device.

Q-6
 
Dec 25, 2020 at 7:34 PM Post #128 of 585
Believe Hifiman is holding off with the HM1000 for the west due the differences in mindset due to the poor reception of the R2R2K and criticism by those that didn't really understand the device.

Q-6

Well, but not all of the criticism is based on mindset or misunderstanding the device. I am a (more or less) happy owner of the R2R2k Red, but I still think the device definitely has some "No Gos". My biggest gripe is that both, the R2R2k and the HM1000, are clearly positioned by Hifiman as devices that are supposed to be mainly controlled through external smartphone apps (so no misunderstanding) - but then Hifiman are not doing their homework to develop this software properly. It was like that with the R2R2k and it seems the HM1000 app is struggling, too.
 
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Dec 25, 2020 at 8:56 PM Post #129 of 585
I really enjoy HM1K sonic performance. While it is not as clear and lacks resolution compared to P6, it makes up for it in tonality. I can't wait for my case to arrive, and after that, I will start my long overdue review.
 
Dec 27, 2020 at 7:00 PM Post #130 of 585
Well, but not all of the criticism is based on mindset or misunderstanding the device. I am a (more or less) happy owner of the R2R2k Red, but I still think the device definitely has some "No Gos". My biggest gripe is that both, the R2R2k and the HM1000, are clearly positioned by Hifiman as devices that are supposed to be mainly controlled through external smartphone apps (so no misunderstanding) - but then Hifiman are not doing their homework to develop this software properly. It was like that with the R2R2k and it seems the HM1000 app is struggling, too.

TBH I don't disagree as Hifiman could do a lot more on the SW side. I use my R2R2K as a DAP or a USB DAC, so the remote app and associated connectivity issues don't effect my usage. Anyway I clarified on the R2R2K thread that I don't recommend the player if the intention is to stream as it's all far too hit and miss.

HM1000 I have no interest in as it requires another device to control it, which to me defeats the purpose...

Q-6
 
Dec 27, 2020 at 9:36 PM Post #131 of 585
Just FYI to add to my earlier comments on the HM1000. After several weeks of ownership, the harshness and sibilance is gone. This device NEEDS 100-200 hours of burn-in to settle in. Say what you want about if burn-in is a real thing or not... on a r2r dac (at least this particular version) it 100% makes a difference.
 
Dec 28, 2020 at 3:07 AM Post #132 of 585
Well, but not all of the criticism is based on mindset or misunderstanding the device. I am a (more or less) happy owner of the R2R2k Red, but I still think the device definitely has some "No Gos". My biggest gripe is that both, the R2R2k and the HM1000, are clearly positioned by Hifiman as devices that are supposed to be mainly controlled through external smartphone apps (so no misunderstanding) - but then Hifiman are not doing their homework to develop this software properly. It was like that with the R2R2k and it seems the HM1000 app is struggling, too.
I would say more-so that hifiman has abandoned the software/app business and is instead encouraging users to use the device as a dac/amp. And the HM1000 does a fantastic job for that purpose. It supports all the leading codecs including LDAC (which I personally cannot discern an audible difference between LDAC & USB). I think the HM1000 is now almost 1 year old and the app is still a steaming pile of garbage. I actually had a short chat with Dr. Fang in the hifiman wechat group. He said they are working on optimizing the firmware rather than fixing the app. Pity, but I guess hifiman just isn't a software company and doesn't really plan to be.
 
Jan 20, 2021 at 8:51 AM Post #133 of 585
Finally some images that show a decent size comparison...
It seems it is not sooo much bigger than the R2R2000?

There is still one thing that bothers me about the HM1000: The smartphone software seems so rudimentary! As it looks like it even cannot show cover art?? So what is the point then in using the "big phone screen", as Hifiman advertises it?



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Jan 23, 2021 at 6:36 PM Post #134 of 585
Hi friends, I just wanted to inform you guys that there has been a new FW and App update. For me the FW has changed the sound and it now sounds more inline with the R2R2K black, with better soundstage.
It is a must try for those who like a more warmer and wider soundstage. Also the unit appears to run cooler, but need to keep testing.

https://hifiman.cn/services
 
Jan 23, 2021 at 7:02 PM Post #135 of 585
Hi friends, I just wanted to inform you guys that there has been a new FW and App update. For me the FW has changed the sound and it now sounds more inline with the R2R2K black, with better soundstage.
It is a must try for those who like a more warmer and wider soundstage. Also the unit appears to run cooler, but need to keep testing.

https://hifiman.cn/services
Awesome. Will check it out and report back. I'm especially interested in the updated firmware.
 

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