Hifiman HM-801 RMAA Tests
May 10, 2010 at 6:57 AM Post #211 of 795

Edwood

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Quote:
Quote:
Both of you grow up. Especially Beefy, you just provided a perfect example of immaturity.
 
You quoted 3 people, and tell two grow up. Am I third or among these two?


Looks like a glitch with the multi quoting, as he quoted your quote of Beefy, whom he was referring to, probably not you.
 
May 10, 2010 at 7:57 AM Post #213 of 795

Trysaeder

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I tried the listening test, and I heard a difference that would give me confidence to choose any player based on utility rather than supposed sound quality. I do not want to spend a lot of money on audio, since I believe that when you get a certain piece of decent equipment and use it for a while, your mind with zero to that sound. It will use it as a reference point. I think the sweet spot for good audio is around $250 USD, which is like $330 Aud once it gets here. This thread has helped my finalize my opinion that spending more money for a small increase is not worth it, spending a relatively high amount for a nice piece of gear and leaving it is good enough.
 
If I had to say, I'd go 2=>4>3>1.
 
May 10, 2010 at 8:26 AM Post #214 of 795

cegras

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Quote:
I am criticising your conclusions, such as about the treble.  You said yourself on your own forum, "Sad that people can't accept facts."  You need to learn to accept some facts about how digital audio works, because while I applaud you for doing measurements, your understanding of the results you get is grossly lacking and, worse still, you are spreading your ignorance as facts.
 
If anyone wants to do a simple test to understand why the slow roll-off filter would have essentially zero effect when listening, find that "Measure your ears' frequency response" page and listen for yourself how hard it is to tell the difference in volume of high frequencies.  


Quote:
You can't hear it so it's justified.  

 
May 10, 2010 at 9:21 AM Post #215 of 795
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cegras: No, the other way around -- there apparently is distortion caused by NOT having it roll-off slowly.
 
May 10, 2010 at 9:22 AM Post #216 of 795

JaZZ

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1: Cowon V5
2: original Flac
3: HM-801
4: Clip+


Additionally my ranking in terms of sonic preference:
 
1:   . Track 2
2:   . Track 3
3a: - Track 4
3b: - Track 1
.
 
May 10, 2010 at 9:29 AM Post #217 of 795

SHADYMILKMAN

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personally I can hear all of those available individual freq's (the mosquito hearing site, not the dfkt audio test). so glossing over them as though no one can appreciate them is sickening to me, that rationale is absurd, this site is predicated on the minutiae of detail. if you cant appreciate the intricacies of hifi, then this probably isnt the board for you. if you cant tell the difference b.w the tracks recorded by a $45 and $800 player, yet proclaim any kind of night and day difference, then its clear to me whats so inherently wrong with the community, which is the dishonesty b.w customers, potential consumers and manufacturers. its fine to spend YOUR money for some sort of e-fame/status but dont spread misinformation about the quality of the audio, it serves only to perpetuate poor craftsmanship. we as a community should demand the absolute best in audio reproduction. I dont know, if i was building a product that came under this scrutiny i hope i would be humble enough to address the concerns of ppl who purchased my product, but that would be admitting something is wrong.
 
someone finally told the emperor that he wasn't wearing any clothes ... turns out he didn't care.
 
May 10, 2010 at 9:57 AM Post #218 of 795

JaZZ

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personally I can hear all of those available individual freq's (the mosquito hearing site, not the dfkt audio test). so glossing over them as though no one can appreciate them is sickening to me, that rationale is absurd, this site is predicated on the minutiae of detail. if you cant appreciate the intricacies of hifi, then this probably isnt the board for you. if you cant tell the difference b.w the tracks recorded by a $45 and $800 player, yet proclaim any kind of night and day difference, then its clear to me whats so inherently wrong with the community, which is the dishonesty b.w customers, potential consumers and manufacturers. its fine to spend YOUR money for some sort of e-fame/status but dont spread misinformation about the quality of the audio, it serves only to perpetuate poor craftsmanship. we as a community should demand the absolute best in audio reproduction. I dont know, if i was building a product that came under this scrutiny i hope i would be humble enough to address the concerns of ppl who purchased my product, but that would be admitting something is wrong.
 
someone finally told the emperor that he wasn't wearing any clothes ... turns out he didn't care.


That's a premature conclusion. I can hear differences among the four samples. And if track 2 is indeed the original Flac file, I would rate track 3 as closest in sound quality and possibly worth the higher price – if the sound-quality advantage is consistent with other recordings. But I still have my reservations against the test method. Real headphones as loads instead of a line input with 16 ohm impedance could have shown different and maybe even clearer results. 
.
 
May 10, 2010 at 10:54 AM Post #219 of 795

kostalex

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Yes, test would be better with real headphones. Their dynamic resistance will load weaker amps (say internal in Clip+) hard. This will be a fair test.
 
Other option is to measure both players as sources, then line-out should be used whenever is possible and load should be 10K - 50K Ohm.
 
I appreciate dfkt efforts to bring us the graphs. Though I do not like aggressive comments here that HiFiMan had to create the device with linear FR. They mustn't, this is their design choice and right to choose any FR they like to provide the sound they intended.
 
I suggest HiFiMan to add FR graph to official specs and then this discussion will take another route. It will probably continue though for better community knowledge and for the sake of HiFiMan brand recognition.
beerchug.gif

 
May 10, 2010 at 11:14 AM Post #220 of 795

Beefy

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Quote:
Both of you grow up. Especially Beefy, you just provided a perfect example of immaturity.
 


Go back and re-read it, KID. I was the one who posted that popcorn posts were useless; kostalex, Sonic 748i and others are the peasants posting popcorn.
 
May 10, 2010 at 11:17 AM Post #221 of 795

Beefy

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Quote:
Yes, test would be better with real headphones. Their dynamic resistance will load weaker amps (say internal in Clip+) hard. This will be a fair test.


You're missing the point - load is irrelevant. Nankai has all but admitted that the frequency roll off is there, and even hinted that it is deliberate in order to make the PCM1704 sound acceptable.
 
May 10, 2010 at 11:39 AM Post #222 of 795

JaZZ

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You're missing the point - load is irrelevant. Nankai has all but admitted that the frequency roll off is there, and even hinted that it is deliberate in order to make the PCM1704 sound acceptable.


 This test is not about the HM-801's high-frequency roll-off. It's about the sonic differences among three DAPs and an original recording.
.
 
May 10, 2010 at 11:43 AM Post #223 of 795

david1978jp

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dfkt,
I am a bit confused about the test. Should we get a marked known original track first, and then we compare four unknown tracks (including the original again) - to see whether we can tell the difference? In stead, we should look at graphics, and guess which-is-which? Since you already pointed out "roll-off", we probably look for the "roll-off" when we listen.
 
May 10, 2010 at 11:46 AM Post #224 of 795

EddieE

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Or we listen to them and think:
 
If the difference between them is so minor, how can one justify one costing hundreds of pounds and the other about twenty?
 

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