[mulveling]

Chinese quality, Stax (and more) prices.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I owned both HE1000 and 1000V2 and glad that I got rid of them. No, the V2 sounded quite great but I refuse to give him my money any more. You will be lucky to get even $1100 from the HE1000 these days so who would want to buy the HE1000 V2 now? Feel bad for the retailers as well. They will have a tough time getting rid of their 1000 V2 stock.

I really thought Hifiman was turning a corner in the right direction. The Sundara sounds much better than the 400i, 400S, 400, and 560. And it costs less than most of those did when they first launched.
Then the Ananda comes out at a lower price point than the Edition X V2 (when it was first launched). And it sounds very good as well. So I just assumed the revamped HEK would have some small improvements and be sold at a lower price as well. But leave it to Hifiman to go full jack wagon and sabatoge their own momentum.

 

[eee1111]

Ouch

What will a v2 owner do? LoL

Will it be 800 more bucks to upgrade?

 

[purk]

Because it sounds good(er)!

 

[Hifi Boy]

I'm wondering whether the new HEK has polyester or velour pads?

I prefer the velour ones because they feel more premium and are more comfortable. I'm fine with sacrificing miniscule amount of SQ for a far more comfortable experience. Unfortunately I haven't seen any HEK velour pads for sale on Hifiman store.

 

[m17xr2b]

Hopefully these won't have new pads not available for V2 owner for a year.

 

[Hifi Boy]

Hopefully these won't have new pads not available for V2 owner for a year.

Nice, I thought I was the only one who liked the older pads over the newer ones.

 

[kid vic]

I owned both HE1000 and 1000V2 and glad that I got rid of them. No, the V2 sounded quite great but I refuse to give him my money any more. You will be lucky to get even $1100 from the HE1000 these days so who would want to buy the HE1000 V2 now? Feel bad for the retailers as well. They will have a tough time getting rid of their 1000 V2 stock.

On the contrary i think this will make it easier for the V2 stock to move if their is a serious price adjustment.
I highly doubt there will be a serious difference in sound quality between V2 and V3, i think it will a difference of 10% to the few who find that difference audible. Also, taking into account Hifimans spotty QC buying them used or at significant discount is basically the only logical way to buy hifiman gear. To be an early adopter of hifiman products means you run the risk of driver failures or immediate obsolescence, to buy their products at a used/refurbished/fire sale price means you pay close to the median price deserved of top tier sound with back alley build and business practices.

 

[mulveling]

If the value is continually dropping like a stone, there is no right time to buy. This stuff makes Stax look like a genius investment

 

[JaZZ]

I’m pretty sure it’s double sided. The problem is that the type of magnets used are not powerful enough to control the drivers (needs to be neodymium), which is why the bass is a little loose. Also, Hifiman doesn’t seem to tension their drivers as high as Audeze does. Those two companies need to share notes. Audeze always has amazing bass with no upper mids or treble. Hifiman always has great upper mids and treble but looser bass. Give me a headphone with the upper mids, treble, and soundstage of the Susvara and the bass of the LCD X and I will be done with this hobby —————-> endgame achieved.

The HE1000 indeed has double-sided magnets, the inner ones being thinner than the outer ones (asymmetric magnet array).

I guess the advantage of this design is in the acoustics (less resonant reflections), not the drive.

To counter above statement: Magnets don't have the ability to «control» membrane/voice-coil movement, so their strength doesn't matter in this context – as counterintuitive as that may sound. Otherwise the Susvara with its weaker drive would sound clearly worse than the HE1000. Driving force is the result of the interaction between the static magnet field and the dynamic magnet field produced by the currents within the conductor traces/voice-coils, so a weaker static field can perfectly be compensated by a stronger dynamic field – which means lower efficiency. As we know, lower efficiency doesn't mean lower sound quality.

To those who seem to know that the HE1000 magnets aren't made of neodymium: Where do you have this information from? I can't find any info on the magnet material. What else is it supposed to be?

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

The HE1000 indeed has double-sided magnets, the inner ones being thinner than the outer ones (asymmetric magnet array).



I guess the advantage of this design is in the acoustics (less resonant reflections), not the drive.

To counter above statement: Magnets don't have the ability to «control» membrane/voice-coil movement, so their strength doesn't matter in this context – as counterintuitive as that may sound. Otherwise the Susvara with its weaker drive would sound clearly worse than the HE1000. Driving force is the result of the interaction between the static magnet field and the dynamic magnet field produced by the currents within the conductor traces/voice-coils, so a weaker static field can perfectly be compensated by a stronger dynamic field – which means lower efficiency. As we know, lower efficiency doesn't mean lower sound quality.

To those who seem to know that the HE1000 magnets aren't made of neodymium: Where do you have this information from? I can't find any info on the magnet material. What else is it supposed to be?

Hifiman, itself, is touting that the HE1000se now comes with new and more powerful neodymium magnets. Well I don’t know how they can be considered new if they were already present in the HEK V2.

 

[JaZZ]

I see. The statement doesn't exclude that the now magnets are already made of neodymium, though, which I still consider somewhat likely. The only other (weaker) material that comes to mind for this purpose is samarium cobalt – which isn't much cheaper and a bit less suitable for stability reasons.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I see. The statement doesn't exclude that the now magnets are already made of neodymium, though, which I still consider somewhat likely. The only other (weaker) material that comes to mind for this purpose is samarium cobalt – which isn't much cheaper and a bit less suitable for stability reasons.

There are several other magnetic materials that can be used for headphones such as Ferrite, Samarium Cobalt or Aluminium magnets.

I also disagree when you say the strength of the magnets doesn’t help control the drivers. It is well known that a stronger magnetic field will be able to more quickly stop and/or accelerate the drivers.

Also, how do you know what type of magnets are used in the Susvara or how strong they are compared to the HEK? Please share.

 

[JaZZ]

There are several other magnetic materials that can be used for headphones such as Ferrite, Samarium Cobalt or Aluminium magnets.

I have already mentioned samarium cobalt, but its price is very similar to neodymium, and from the stability I consider it less suitable for open magnet bars. Ferrite is by far not strong enough for planar headphones (moreover the magnet bars in the HE1000 don't look like it). From what I know Alnico isn't used for headphones at all. Its flux density is too low as well – and it's prone to lose its magnetic flux through mechanical shocks. I used it for a homegrown transformerless ribbon supertweeter myself (with the typical horseshoe shape) and had to realize that the resulting efficiency was much too low – but the sound was stunning nonetheless: very impulsive and fast, almost plasma-like.

I also disagree when you say the strength of the magnets doesn’t help control the drivers. It is well known that a stronger magnetic field will be able to more quickly stop and/or accelerate the drivers.

No, that's not «well known», just an urban legend. I've read an extensive paper exactly about this topic, documented with a lot of measurements which all confirmed that the strength of the magnetic field has no impact on impulse response (with the exception of the range around the resonant frequency of dynamic drivers, which is affected by back EMF, defining the Q factor of the bass resonance). When you think about it more closely, you'll come to the conclusion that it's the only logical scenario: There's simply no way for a magnetic field to control voice-coil movement, it just offers driving force, together with the dynamic field from the voice-coil.

Also, how do you know what type of magnets are used in the Susvara or how strong they are compared to the HEK? Please share.

I don't know, but I'm sure it uses neodymium magnets – considering the price and the high aspirations. However, the much lower efficiency is an indisputable evidence of lower driving force. Much likely a byproduct of the «Stealth Magnets»: thin magnet bars for maximum acoustic openness and low reflectivity.

After some more reflection about the «stronger magnets» I think it's possible that the statement addresses the now symmetrical magnet array, with inner magnets of the same dimension and strength as the outer magnets, resulting in a stronger magnetic field.

 

[alphanumerix1]

Chifiman at it again. The whole business model just puts me off from ever owning one.

Plus the qc issues...