[freeza2001]

There is a small group of DIY'ers who have been dreaming of certain parts, and well i wouldn't mind waiting till some of these are on the used market for parts.

Though I pieced this together with some half decent parts, i would love a shell of these he-r10 to throw some dt48 drivers in. . If the HE-R10 isn't legendary, i'm sure it will make for a "legendary shell" for vintage drivers from the DIY'ers.

Sound quality aside....for a headphone to obtain a legendary status, it has to last at least 20+ years in my opinion. And thats just one of the category.

HIFIMAN can produce excellent headphones. But with thier build quality and all the QC problem, they will never produce a legendary headphone.

20 years later people will still hold on to their MDR-R10. But the HE R10 will be long forgotten either due to HIFIMAN refreshing this lineup or better sounding and build headphone take its place.

 

[freeza2001]

HIFIMAN is releasing product towards enthusiastic market but at the same time treats them as mass consumer products.

With all the yearly upgrades and flagship ontop of flagship.

A brand new HEK v2 can be bought for less than 1.3k in the chinese market. A used HEK SE goes for 1.5k those days. HIFIMAN with their quick buck method severely depreciate their product value.

In the long run I can see people just fed up with thier pricing scheme and just wait for it to be heavily discounted.

 

[radnor]

Now that Hifi man is launching a TOTL closed... expect Audeze to launch a closed version of the 4Z.... this might be the best thing to happen here.

I'd buy a closed 4Z in a heartbeat. My problem with Susvara was it didnt have the meat my 4Z and 4had... so i would expect the same with the H-R10

 

[elvergun]

20 years later people will still hold on to their MDR-R10. But the HE R10 will be long forgotten either due to HIFIMAN refreshing this lineup or better sounding and build headphone take its place.

Twenty years from now existing MDR-R10s might still...err...exist.

I doubt many HE-R10s will still be in one piece in 20 years. I can picture cups detached from the flimsy headband and dead drivers...and those few still in one piece will look like crap because the pleather headband will be in pieces. The pads, on the other hand, will fall apart after weeks, not years. And all of this fun can be had for the incredible price of $5000. What a deal.

And some people in this thread are lining up with money at hand in order to take this ride.

 

[Mink]

LOL what exactly is wrong with that headband, people keep mentioning it in this thread? It looks comfy and solid to me.

 

[freeza2001]

LOL what exactly is wrong with that headband, people keep mentioning it in this thread? It looks comfy and solid to me.

Its the same headband that the new HE 400i uses.

Even if people have no problem with a 5k headphone share the same headband as a 200 dollar headphone. It doesn't change that fact it feels cheap and flimsy in hand. I would say even the Beats studio headband feels more premium than this.

Comfort wise it is fine.

And yes i been using the new He 400i for the past month.

 

[elvergun]

LOL what exactly is wrong with that headband, people keep mentioning it in this thread? It looks comfy and solid to me.

Most pleather headbands and pads start to disintegrate after a few years.

It might look solid to you right now, but lets see how it looks in a few years.

 

[kp297]

Alright I'm back, and I promise this is my last comment for you It was quite fun/interesting I might add.

And you seem to have missed all of my questions/points.



I don't have issue with the product using the same low quality headband. I have issue with how much they're charging for it. And I haven't mentioned ergonomics nor comfort in any of my statements. I was referring to the build quality to price ratio. And again, you haven't answered any part of what makes this exotic or great for that matter, other than regurgitate/post link of HFM's marketing presentation, which has zero bearing on sound quality. The diagram doesn't prove any of your assertions on what makes this a great HP. Are you really that naive? And I don't read Chinese.



You need $5K to make a bluetooth headphone?? Again, all you're doing is posting links to manufacturer's marketing statements which has zero bearing on sound quality. What does 'nano scale' have to do with sound you've never heard before?? You believe all the marketing gimmick/ploy/statements? Here's a good one for you.

"This product capitalizes on two specific properties of mineral crystals; these properties - vibration absorption and Radio Frequency Interference/Electromagnetic Interference (RFI/EMI) absorption - are the consequence of atomic mechanisms in the crystals' highly symmetrical structures. But, not necessarily, as we will see below, the consequence of piezoelectricity."

It's about an audiophile stone/rock if you're wondering, which is utter nonsense. It's a manufacturer statement, so I'm sure you'll take it to heart. It's probably fake, but hope you get my point. You sound nothing more than an uninformed buyer falling prey to marketing nonsense if that's all you're going off of (manufacturer statements/claims).



OK. The main source of your entire argument/logic was Fang's product presentation?? WOW. That makes perfect sense. He mentions looking to surpass Sony's R10? That must be god's words then huh? When I mentioned self-justification, I was referring to your reasoning behind your enthusiasm/support regarding this product. I think the product is crap because it's not worth the asking price for the reasons I've stated multiple times, whereas you think it's great because what, "Fang said so?" lol brilliant.



I applaud your decision to give it a shot based on manufacturer presentation! And I'm not being facetious, maybe a little. And I will thank you in advance for providing feedback to this community, and can only wish it's a fair one. And to close it out, sincerely hope it's well worth your money.

Thanks and I'll let you close this conversation out. GL!

Hi, I would have preferred for you to message me via PM's. It seems you wish to continue conversing in public, that's ok. Don't worry, I'm having some fun with you as well! I'll break this down again for you

1. "I don't have issue with the product using the same low quality headband. I have issue with how much they're charging for it. And I haven't mentioned ergonomics nor comfort in any of my statements. I was referring to the build quality to price ratio. And again, you haven't answered any part of what makes this exotic or great for that matter, other than regurgitate/post link of HFM's marketing presentation, which has zero bearing on sound quality. The diagram doesn't prove any of your assertions on what makes this a great HP. Are you really that naive? And I don't read Chinese."
You have an issue with Hifiman using the same headband, yet you haven't used it on the HE-R10. Do you have price breakdown of HE-R10 (BOM, R&D, marketing etc) that is signed off by Fang? Please don't bother us until this is produced. Also, you complain about the headband not taking up a certain percentage of the cost (which you can not provide), this is your opinion. I understand why it bothers you, but it doesn't bother everyone to the same degree. Unless the headband (or component) doesn't do it's job well, why raise a stink about it when the product hasn't released? You can only truly judge a product when it's in your hands.
Regarding exotic, I've already explained to you it's a closed back planar using a nano scale diaphragm. No other company has achieved this. This headphone demonstrates an exotic application of advanced planar technologies. Can you find another product that does this? I'm waiting. Perhaps you should read the materials I provided again, it would help your confusion greatly. Again, Hifimans marketing materials are the only basis we can go on before someone can do a full teardown of the product. I would love to see this to be honest. Unless you have better evidence of what technologies the headphone uses, I suggest you leave it there.
Regarding diaphragm. Do you understand how difficult it is to apply a nano scale membrane in a headphone? This is difficult, and getting the sound right for a closed back is also difficult. Hifiman is the first company to execute on both fronts in one product. Of course, I can't prove whether a nano scale diaphragm will produce great sound for the HE-R10. I don't have the headphone in my hand. I'm assuming it will (safe assumption). All we have is evidence from LCD4, LCD4z, Hifiman 1000/V2/se and Susvara demonstrating a nano meter grade diaphragm applications produces excellent sound quality. I have interviewed Sankar from Audeze, and asked him about nano scale technologies, it was an interesting conversation. I suggest you read it, it would help your understanding in this matter (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-factory-tour-and-interview-kishore-patel-bharat-patel.890645/).
Please see Sankars response:
"For Audeze, we were able to make a breakthrough in materials science and make a nano meter film, which contributes to LCD4’s remarkable sound."
Compounding his response with the product line up in both Hifimans/Audeze's lineup that uses such nano meter membrane technologies in higher end headphones, it's a safe bet HE-R10 will produce high quality sound given the membrane technology it uses. It's fairly safe to assume a thinner diaphragm can offer better sound quality in accordance with Hifimans products.
You mentioned my assumption was naive. I wouldn't say such an assumption is naive. All I did was personally interview CEO's of such companies such as Audeze, and Sankar explains thinner membranes helps contribute to better sound. This applies to Hifiman as well, this is why their HE1000/se/Susvara cost/sound what they do. Membrane development is costly. If you can do better, I look forward to your products.

FYI I don't read Mandarin either. However, I do have access to Google Translate. Here is a page about it https://translate.google.com/ You can also find an app for it on the Google Play store or Apple App Store. good luck!

2. "You need $5K to make a bluetooth headphone?? Again, all you're doing is posting links to manufacturer's marketing statements which has zero bearing on sound quality. What does 'nano scale' have to do with sound you've never heard before?? You believe all the marketing gimmick/ploy/statements? Here's a good one for you."

Can you find another headphone offering the same features? I notice you have FAILED to provide this. Can you make a headphone offering these features at a lower price? When can you start manufacturing, I would like to place an order. Hifiman can set a higher price as they have feature exclusivity. This is how a free market works. The marketing statements simply indicate Hifiman is using their advanced planar technologies to make an efficient high resolution headphone. Hifiman has setup this headphone through marketing and the technologies they use for us to believe it is a flagship class headphone. Why is it silly to assume HE-R10 will be in the same league as Hifiman's other products such as the HE1000se?

3. "OK. The main source of your entire argument/logic was Fang's product presentation?? WOW. That makes perfect sense. He mentions looking to surpass Sony's R10? That must be god's words then huh? When I mentioned self-justification, I was referring to your reasoning behind your enthusiasm/support regarding this product. I think the product is crap because it's not worth the asking price for the reasons I've stated multiple times, whereas you think it's great because what, "Fang said so?" lol brilliant. "

You posted some marketing nonsense before this statement, eluding that I'll believe anything. I won't waste time breaking this down. Simply put, Hifimans marketing sets market expectations and provides an indicator of the product's intention. It's up to the reader/reviewer whether it's worth the cash.

Moving on to the other stuff you posted. Fang's product presentation again, demonstrates his intentions with the product. He intends for the HE-R10 to surpass the Sony R10. It's fair to assume the HE-R10 was created to surpass the original. Fang is staking his ENTIRE reputation on this, it's fair to expect he will deliver on his intention for his HE-R10 to surpass the Sony. Whether it actually does, we need to wait and see. Please watch his presentation.
My enthusiasm for the support is no more than giving his product a chance. Based on my experience with his flagship products, I'm confident in his ability to create headphones that can produce great quality sound. Plus I loved closed back headphones and this one has piqued my interested. Every product deserves a chance. Granted, points will be taken off for this copycat BS Fang pulled. He could've created an original design, but chose not to and engage in this larceny.

Now look, I didn't particularly enjoy writing this but it had to be done. Please let's take this private. Cheers and GL!

 

[GREQ]

This image from what I assume to be a pre-order page, shows something of the internal design of the headband.
The big 'chunk' of plastic (at the very right of the headband/image) seems to be a big improvement over the previous qualities we've seen.

I think 'mechanically' it will be fine, but the thin pleather being peeled back to reveal it shows exactly what it is - thin pleather.
That said, even pleather can last decades with VERY careful pampering... but like all pleather, it will end up totally skinned.

For a modder, it doesn't look like a nightmare to replace with lambskin.

 

[sennfan83261]

This image from what I assume to be a pre-order page, shows something of the internal design of the headband.
The big 'chunk' of plastic (at the very right of the headband/image) seems to be a big improvement over the previous qualities we've seen.

I think 'mechanically' it will be fine, but the thin pleather being peeled back to reveal it shows exactly what it is - thin pleather.
That said, even pleather can last decades with VERY careful pampering... but like all pleather, it will end up totally skinned.

For a modder, it doesn't look like a nightmare to replace with lambskin.

At their price points, they should have used genuine leather. The leather from their old school leather headbands (HE-500 and HE-6) still holds up nearly a decade later.

 

[elvergun]

I think 'mechanically' it will be fine, but the thin pleather being peeled back to reveal it shows exactly what it is - thin pleather.
That said, even pleather can last decades with VERY careful pampering... but like all pleather, it will end up totally skinned.

Decades? That is very optimistic. In my experience, after five years pleather can start to show signs of flaking.

I purchase these 5 years ago, listened to them for a couple of weeks and then I tossed them in a closet. I took them out after years of being ignored and this is what the pads looked like.

I replaced them with leather pads. The headband padding is still in okay shape though.

I also had to replace the pads on my 5 year old TH-X00 (ZMF Ori pads) which where in bad condition.

For a modder, it doesn't look like a nightmare to replace with lambskin.

And what's in store for the non-modders? For the asking price I would expect some type of leather to be part of the package.

 

[GREQ]

Decades? That is very optimistic. In my experience, after five years pleather can start to show signs of flaking.

I purchase these 5 years ago, listened to them for a couple of weeks and then I tossed them in a closet. I took them out after years of being ignored and this is what the pads looked like.



I replaced them with leather pads. The headband padding is still in okay shape though.

I also had to replace the pads on my 5 year old TH-X00 (ZMF Ori pads) which where in bad condition.



And what's in store for the non-modders? For the asking price I would expect some type of leather to be part of the package.

Of course it's all relative.
I have a few vintage headphones with pleather headbands. Most of them are either semi-flaking or completely naked, save for two that are inexplicably fully intact.

I agree. For the price, pleather headband in this modern era, where we have many examples of high-end Sony's of the past with pleather headbands that have completely flaked just doesn't cut it.
Even now there are plenty of vegan/synthetic options to please most sensibilities.

 

[gikigill]

At their price points, they should have used genuine leather. The leather from their old school leather headbands (HE-500 and HE-6) still hold up nearly a decade later.

Yup, stopped buying Hifiman after the above two headphones. The new ones just feel flimsy and cheap, not that the older ones didn't have their share of problems.

 

[Nankai]

HIFIMAN HE-R10 headband will be made of suede, not pleather. The pic with parts here and there, shows 8 year R&D history of making close back planar. Wood cup design, which is the only place looks similar to other headphones, can be easily exchanged after removing some screws. Different wood cup material and shape change the sound and looking immediately.

 

[Whitigir]

8 years R&D and only come to the copying of both the name and the housing ? That was a lot of R&D