= HiFiMAN HE-560 Impressions & Discussion Thread =
Nov 16, 2017 at 9:03 PM Post #18,376 of 21,171
Every recording you've probably ever heard has had the final mix go through a compressor I'd wager. Even Classical and Jazz and Blues.

Here's an article from one of the leading music production magazines discussing this

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-how-should-i-compress-classical-recording

The trick with compressors is kinda like the trick with guns: the difference between being a hero and a villian is very slim indeed. And in the wrong hands you're almost guaranteed to do more harm than good.

Which is why the thing they teach engineers on day one about compressors is this: if you can hear it working, you're using it incorrectly.

<snip>
:)
Not being a recording engineer, I don't find it surprising that possibly everything is run through a compressor. For me it is about how much they use it. Maybe having to use moderate compression is required, but I know that the levels at which it is applied is vastly different in different recordings. There is actually a great deal of content that has been and is still being produced in multiple genres that have been mastered with the stated goal of maintain dynamic range. Thank God !

In any case, I get what you are saying about the industry. I also appreciate the information. Still, I call it a sorry state of affairs.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 9:13 PM Post #18,377 of 21,171
What are the quirks, in your opinion? I haven't read the whole thread and it would be quite fastidious. Anyway, i am close to pulling the trigger. I bought a pair of Meze 99 Classic i regret buying because they are bass-heavy. Don't want to make another mistake.
For starters, their particular sound signature, being that they're on the brighter side and need an appropriate amp/dac pairing (which you have). Also they have quite a tight initial clamp pressure (that can be adjusted by stretching the metal headband). Also, the standard Focus-A pads are unbearable for some people with larger ears, which can also be remedied by many possible pads.

I don't think I've read anybody attest to them being bass heavy, beyond those who've done the Jerg mods. In saying that, I'm a fan of some good bass punch and don't find myself wanting when using my 560's.

I also can't speak to the Meze 99's, but if you don't see any red flags here, you're most likely good to go! Personally I am happy with the ~$800CAD (incl. tax) I paid for mine and would be further impressed had I paid $499USD.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 9:15 PM Post #18,378 of 21,171
What are the quirks, in your opinion? I haven't read the whole thread and it would be quite fastidious. Anyway, i am close to pulling the trigger. I bought a pair of Meze 99 Classic i regret buying because they are bass-heavy. Don't want to make another mistake.
The "quirks" of the HE560 is that they are slightly amp picky, the clamping force can be a bit much to some (I had to bend the headband) and ear pads are not the most comfortable to some and seem to fail quickly these days which I think is caused by the clamping force always having the ear pads in compression, it another reason I bent the headband so that when the HE560 is hanging the pads are not smashing each other (I bent the headband so there is about 5mm space between the ear pads when not on my head).
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 9:23 PM Post #18,379 of 21,171
The "quirks" of the HE560 is that they are slightly amp picky, the clamping force can be a bit much to some (I had to bend the headband) and ear pads are not the most comfortable to some and seem to fail quickly these days which I think is caused by the clamping force always having the ear pads in compression, it another reason I bent the headband so that when the HE560 is hanging the pads are not smashing each other (I bent the headband so there is about 5mm space between the ear pads when not on my head).

Thanks. Appreciated.

The clamping force is something to take into account for my big head. Otherwise, it's all fine. To pull it on not to pull it, that's the question.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 9:31 PM Post #18,380 of 21,171
For starters, their particular sound signature, being that they're on the brighter side and need an appropriate amp/dac pairing (which you have). Also they have quite a tight initial clamp pressure (that can be adjusted by stretching the metal headband). Also, the standard Focus-A pads are unbearable for some people with larger ears, which can also be remedied by many possible pads.

I don't think I've read anybody attest to them being bass heavy, beyond those who've done the Jerg mods. In saying that, I'm a fan of some good bass punch and don't find myself wanting when using my 560's.

I also can't speak to the Meze 99's, but if you don't see any red flags here, you're most likely good to go! Personally I am happy with the ~$800CAD (incl. tax) I paid for mine and would be further impressed had I paid $499USD.
Thanks. We're talking 629cnd besides shipping. Quite a bargain.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 9:58 PM Post #18,381 of 21,171
For starters, their particular sound signature, being that they're on the brighter side and need an appropriate amp/dac pairing (which you have). Also they have quite a tight initial clamp pressure (that can be adjusted by stretching the metal headband). Also, the standard Focus-A pads are unbearable for some people with larger ears, which can also be remedied by many possible pads.

.

Not anything to change his decision, but the standard pads are the Focus pads. The Focus A are an optional replacement set of pads.
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 12:54 AM Post #18,382 of 21,171
Ahh yes, good point. Though unless the ear recess is larger, then it's much the same.
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 1:11 AM Post #18,383 of 21,171
What are the quirks, in your opinion? I haven't read the whole thread and it would be quite fastidious. Anyway, i am close to pulling the trigger. I bought a pair of Meze 99 Classic i regret buying because they are bass-heavy. Don't want to make another mistake.

The 99C and HE560 are pretty much polar opposites imo. The HE560 has subbass while the 99C had midbass, the HE560 has great treble extensions while the 99C has a bit subdued treble, the HE560 are bright (in comparison) and airy while the 99C are warm and intimate and so on.....

The overall impression of the HE560 is clean and airy to me, I don't dislike the 99C but they're not my preffered signature and I'm usually not crazy about closed headphones.
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 2:55 AM Post #18,384 of 21,171
@TimeSnow your 'stories' are so laden with errors and inconsistencies, I wouldn't even know where to begin, but I can make an effort.

#1, the 560 is flat in the sub-bass. It's not elevated, or rolled off. We could argue about how it's portrayed (perhaps lacking in slam/rumble/envelopment vs. other brands' planar/dynamic drivers), but that's technicalities of the driver, and besides the point.
Most peoples' brains don't even 'understand' the sub-bass frequencies (until brain-burn in sets in), especially if it's their first planar, and they're used to dynamic cans.
Most speaker setups will not portray sub-bass frequencies accurately due to room acoustics. It's a sort of a revelation to hear sub-bass without standing waves or room resonances.

#2, the distortion comment doesn't make any sense, it doesn't have any basis in science or measurements, nor does your conjecture support your future posts, which seem to vary and contradict themselves.
Most people listen to music from bad sources and bad transducers, and they're certainly not mixed to sound 'horrible' in those.

#3/#4, different transducers and amps respond to EQ differently, you cannot make generalizations. HE560 responds to EQ well, if you know how to EQ.
Most dynamic drivers' begin to add distortion, especially in the sub-bass region, even if you EQ/"boost" them well under safe limits of clipping. (I won't delve into driving an amp into clipping.)
There's audible distortion in HD650s' sub-bass, but it's pleasant, and that's why it has a "speaker-like" presentation, a lovely imitation of real life IMO.

#5, related to #1, 560 isn't exactly a sub-bass monster 'reference' can. An accessible suggestion would be to try Audeze LCD-series. There is face-melting sub-bass which cannot be achieved by any IEMs, sic. You could add a Subpac for the placebo effect, but obviously your chest won't be pounding, like with a speaker/sub-setup.
Oh yeah, related to your babbles about open headphones, besides the LCD-XC, they're not closed-back.

#6, once again riddled with contradictions, as @thebkt said.
Amp has less effect on the sound than the transducer itself.

#7, and related to #6. We have the best transducer technology at this present moment in time, than in any previous time in history. People are listening to music with better gear by the day, and this technology continuously moves forward.
I won't deny that most modern pop records are mastered in a way, that they would sound 'good' ambiguously on many systems. But the fact is that dynamic, 'audiophile'-grade masters are still sought after and appreciated, their popularity has risen in the recent times, and in the future, that's where you can only make your mark, and not with mediocre all-rounders. Ever thought about that?

And another comment: handling sub-bass with Beats or cheap IEMs? That hasn't happened. You're confusing mid-bass with sub-bass. "Reference can" listeners haven't been left out in the cold, as their cans arguable can handle the sub-bass content.
"Reference cans" won't need to adapt, the technology will bring "reference can" sub-bass content every single listener, when the technology gets there. If there's distortion in the crappy pop mix in itself, the solution is not to mask that with crappy driver technology, but to clean up the mix instead, hello?
You're saying that "reference can" listeners are missing content, which is absurd, when in fact they have been revealed what the content is.

No apologies here.

#8. You have got to be kidding me with the dynamic range comment.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/ is so last decade, huh?
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 4:21 AM Post #18,385 of 21,171
@TimeSnow your 'stories' are so laden with errors and inconsistencies, I wouldn't even know where to begin, but I can make an effort.

#1, the 560 is flat in the sub-bass. It's not elevated, or rolled off. We could argue about how it's portrayed (perhaps lacking in slam/rumble/envelopment vs. other brands' planar/dynamic drivers), but that's technicalities of the driver, and besides the point.
Most peoples' brains don't even 'understand' the sub-bass frequencies (until brain-burn in sets in), especially if it's their first planar, and they're used to dynamic cans.
Most speaker setups will not portray sub-bass frequencies accurately due to room acoustics. It's a sort of a revelation to hear sub-bass without standing waves or room resonances.

#2, the distortion comment doesn't make any sense, it doesn't have any basis in science or measurements, nor does your conjecture support your future posts, which seem to vary and contradict themselves.
Most people listen to music from bad sources and bad transducers, and they're certainly not mixed to sound 'horrible' in those.

#3/#4, different transducers and amps respond to EQ differently, you cannot make generalizations. HE560 responds to EQ well, if you know how to EQ.
Most dynamic drivers' begin to add distortion, especially in the sub-bass region, even if you EQ/"boost" them well under safe limits of clipping. (I won't delve into driving an amp into clipping.)
There's audible distortion in HD650s' sub-bass, but it's pleasant, and that's why it has a "speaker-like" presentation, a lovely imitation of real life IMO.

#5, related to #1, 560 isn't exactly a sub-bass monster 'reference' can. An accessible suggestion would be to try Audeze LCD-series. There is face-melting sub-bass which cannot be achieved by any IEMs, sic. You could add a Subpac for the placebo effect, but obviously your chest won't be pounding, like with a speaker/sub-setup.
Oh yeah, related to your babbles about open headphones, besides the LCD-XC, they're not closed-back.

#6, once again riddled with contradictions, as @thebkt said.
Amp has less effect on the sound than the transducer itself.

#7, and related to #6. We have the best transducer technology at this present moment in time, than in any previous time in history. People are listening to music with better gear by the day, and this technology continuously moves forward.
I won't deny that most modern pop records are mastered in a way, that they would sound 'good' ambiguously on many systems. But the fact is that dynamic, 'audiophile'-grade masters are still sought after and appreciated, their popularity has risen in the recent times, and in the future, that's where you can only make your mark, and not with mediocre all-rounders. Ever thought about that?

And another comment: handling sub-bass with Beats or cheap IEMs? That hasn't happened. You're confusing mid-bass with sub-bass. "Reference can" listeners haven't been left out in the cold, as their cans arguable can handle the sub-bass content.
"Reference cans" won't need to adapt, the technology will bring "reference can" sub-bass content every single listener, when the technology gets there. If there's distortion in the crappy pop mix in itself, the solution is not to mask that with crappy driver technology, but to clean up the mix instead, hello?
You're saying that "reference can" listeners are missing content, which is absurd, when in fact they have been revealed what the content is.

No apologies here.

#8. You have got to be kidding me with the dynamic range comment.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/ is so last decade, huh?

If you're purpose is to fight online, I'm not interested. Suffice to say I disagree with multiple aspects of what you've said, and sure anyone with Google and the desire to determine which of us is right can do that pretty easily.

Best.
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 5:04 AM Post #18,386 of 21,171
If you're purpose is to fight online, I'm not interested. Suffice to say I disagree with multiple aspects of what you've said, and sure anyone with Google and the desire to determine which of us is right can do that pretty easily.

Best.
Yeah, we can agree to disagree. People can research HE-560 measurements online, or read about clipping et cetera, and not take either of our subjective opinions as gospel.

All I will say that mixing with the intent of making the sound as good as it can for mediocre transducers is like reversing ass backwards up a tree.
That shouldn't be the goal of anybody who wants to be taken seriously in 'the biz'. As I mentioned, there's nothing wrong with bearing poorer transducers in mind whilst mixing, but as a priority, it's just a laughable cash grab, and a byproduct of our times - what about the years to come?
Thank god we seem to be winning the fight.
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 6:46 AM Post #18,387 of 21,171
I am looking for a balanced act. The k701 lacks the medium presence the 99s have. The 99c has more bass, way too much of it in my setup, and the k701 lacks a bit of bass, especially mid bass and can be a bit too airy. As mentioned, the 99c lacks air although bigger pads improve things but does nothing to tame the bass. And i do not want to equalize.

I don't like the effect of going from the 99c to speakers. It it as if my speaker setup had no bass anymore. My eardrums are fragile. In my opinion, the 99c has a 6db supplement of bass meant for people with portable devices.
 

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