[tiger roach]

I think a lot of people just miss the mid-bass hump that a lot of cans have.

This

 

[waflet]

hideeho
 

  I think a lot of people just miss the mid-bass hump that a lot of cans have.

Exactly! The low end is absolutely there, I would just like it to be brought up a little bit.
 
 

  While I don't use the HE400i as a portable my GF used a Fiio X3 for a few weeks with the 400i and liked it, she then started to use her HD700 with the X3 and now she uses the X3 with a custom Ypsilon build.
 
 
of the amps you have listed only the LD mk1+ and Vali2 I would recommend for the HE400i, the LD mk2 and DV 336 are OTL amps and not usually recommended for planar headphones.  Never heard the Gemtone APPJ so can't comment on it.

I’m very new to all of this, so this is an honest question…
Why would the mk1+ & vali2 be recommended but not the mk2 or 336?

 

[mandrake50]

They go plenty low when the program material is there. Really, sub-bass say below 50 hz  is just not really there in most program material.
In talking to many, and letting them listen to different headphones, they feel that this 50 to 90 hz stuff is sub bass.. it simply is not.
That is why the default crossover on many quality receivers for REAL SUB woofers is around 80 hz.. If one has capable mains...
If we look at most modern recordings there is not much down there to hear... or really feel. Some electronica... pure synth stuff has some output in those frequencies, but still not that much.
 
When I first got my 400i, I was really impressed with how the bass sounded  with acoustic instruments. Double bass, going down  to maybe 40 Hz sounds so .. live. Bass drums sound great too.. Organ with true fundaments at or about 20 Hz reveal those notes. Not like a pair of 15" inch woofers in a well tuned room with a KW of power each... but really, there can be no comparison between that scenario and headphones... any headphones.
From the FR perspective. Of course there is the "impact" part, but that is much higher in frequency. The 400i is fine for low bass within the confines of what headphones can do.
Yes, I think that many times people mistake that lack of what is really midbass thump to be a lack of sub bass...

 

[dubharmonic]

hideeho
I'm currently using an SMSL m3 from massdrop.com for desktop & a Dragonfly black for portable (although for portable I usually use my Westone um pro 10's). I love the clarity & full range of the 400i w/ the m3 but I would like a little bit fuller sound on the low end. To this end I will probably end up w/ a tube amp like a little dot mkI+ or mkII or Gemtone APPJ or Schiit Vali2 or Darkvoice 336. If anyone has experience with any of these in relation to the 400i, I'd love to hear about it!

The Vali 2 and the 400i are a killer combo! It's addictive.

 

[mandrake50]

 

hideeho
I'm currently using an SMSL m3 from massdrop.com for desktop & a Dragonfly black for portable (although for portable I usually use my Westone um pro 10's). I love the clarity & full range of the 400i w/ the m3 but I would like a little bit fuller sound on the low end. To this end I will probably end up w/ a tube amp like a little dot mkI+ or mkII or Gemtone APPJ or Schiit Vali2 or Darkvoice 336. If anyone has experience with any of these in relation to the 400i, I'd love to hear about it!

The Vali 2 and the 400i are a killer combo! It's addictive.

So is the Ember 2 and the H10..
This whole headphone/audio thing is addictive ( primarily the reason that we are all here)... and costly..

 

 

[DavidA]

  hideeho
 
Exactly! The low end is absolutely there, I would just like it to be brought up a little bit.
 
 
I’m very new to all of this, so this is an honest question…
Why would the mk1+ & vali2 be recommended but not the mk2 or 336?

The Mk2 and 336 are OTL design amps with higher output impedance which you don't want for low impedance planar headphones where the Mk1 and Vali2 are hybrid (tube/SS) with lower output impedance.

 

[drwlf]

  I'm puzzled as to why people think the HE-400i is lacking in low bass. I hear plenty, and the measured frequency response (by Tyll Hertsens) in the bass is flat and extended:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE4002014.pdf

 
These measurements are for the older version of 400i, which has a backplate with SMC connectors, which seem to add the sub-bass a bit.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/791185/new-he400i-driver-housing-design-or-just-a-mixup-with-he400s-drivers
TL;DR the newer 2.5mm connector version doesn't have a backplate.
 
It's been documented that the newer backplateless version has a a bit of roll-off, as measured later several times by some people on in this thread & other websites, it's just that the measurements have had differing amounts of sub-bass as they're not comparable, and there seems to be a lot of unit variation as well.

 

[WriterHead]

  I think a lot of people just miss the mid-bass hump that a lot of cans have.

This.

 

[drwlf]

  To my understanding the problem is the pads, They do not put enough distance between your ear and the headphones.

 
Most noticeably what @Dopaminer said, moving the driver away from the ear that extra mm or 2 or 3, will add bass weight.
Quality impressions on the bass.

 

[pbarach]

   
These measurements are for the older version of 400i, which has a backplate with SMC connectors, which seem to add the sub-bass a bit.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/791185/new-he400i-driver-housing-design-or-just-a-mixup-with-he400s-drivers
TL;DR the newer 2.5mm connector version doesn't have a backplate.
 
It's been documented that the newer backplateless version has a a bit of roll-off, as measured later several times by some people on in this thread & other websites, it's just that the measurements have had differing amounts of sub-bass as they're not comparable, and there seems to be a lot of unit variation as well.

I have the newer version. I'm hearing 20 Hz organ pedal without a problem. So if there is unit variation, mine has a "good variation" as far as bass goes.

 

[wigglepuff]

  I have the newer version. I'm hearing 20 Hz organ pedal without a problem. So if there is unit variation, mine has a "good variation" as far as bass goes.

Try it here on optimal volume level
http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
 
I also have the new version with the 7 bar backplate, 2.5 plug connector and focusA pads, the 20hz is rolled off compared to my X1 where it really rumbles. But the 400i is cleaner sounding due to no mid bass hump and cleaner highs.
 
Also check your ears for hearing loss which can be found in that link (better if you can see an ear doctor for a more accurate test), a lot of people claim to hear things without even realizing the amount of hearing loss they already have especially at the 200hz down range which is more prone to damage in urban life.

 

[snellemin]

  They go plenty low when the program material is there. Really, sub-bass say below 50 hz  is just not really there in most program material.
In talking to many, and letting them listen to different headphones, they feel that this 50 to 90 hz stuff is sub bass.. it simply is not.
That is why the default crossover on many quality receivers for REAL SUB woofers is around 80 hz.. If one has capable mains...
If we look at most modern recordings there is not much down there to hear... or really feel. Some electronica... pure synth stuff has some output in those frequencies, but still not that much.
 
When I first got my 400i, I was really impressed with how the bass sounded  with acoustic instruments. Double bass, going down  to maybe 40 Hz sounds so .. live. Bass drums sound great too.. Organ with true fundaments at or about 20 Hz reveal those notes. Not like a pair of 15" inch woofers in a well tuned room with a KW of power each... but really, there can be no comparison between that scenario and headphones... any headphones.
From the FR perspective. Of course there is the "impact" part, but that is much higher in frequency. The 400i is fine for low bass within the confines of what headphones can do.
Yes, I think that many times people mistake that lack of what is really midbass thump to be a lack of sub bass...JV

I have a vid of a JVC headphone doing 15Hz with no problems, so the impact can be felt.  It does take a bit more with the 400i to feel any impact(but not at 15hz), due to the planar drivers vs dynamic drivers.

 

[pbarach]

  Try it here on optimal volume level
http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
 
I also have the new version with the 7 bar backplate, 2.5 plug connector and focusA pads, the 20hz is rolled off compared to my X1 where it really rumbles. But the 400i is cleaner sounding due to no mid bass hump and cleaner highs.
 
Also check your ears for hearing loss which can be found in that link (better if you can see an ear doctor for a more accurate test), a lot of people claim to hear things without even realizing the amount of hearing loss they already have especially at the 200hz down range which is more prone to damage in urban life.

I'm not hearing much over 12 kHz--I know this from an audiology visit as well as the tests at that website. Not much hearing loss below that, given my age, but audiologists don't test as low as 20 Hz.

 

[InsTwin]

I've been using the HM5 Angled Velour pads on these for a couple of weeks while I used the HM5 Flat Hybrids with the THX00.  Just ordered a pair of HM5 Flat Sheepskins to go on the THX00 and switched the Flat Hybrids back onto my HE400i and gotta say, these are the pads for me.  Bass (sub and mid) response is increased over the Velour, and they just sound better all around to my ears.
 
I may roll the sheepskins on them after hearing them on the THX00 for a bit, but it's nice to remember why I liked the Flat Hybrids so much to begin with.

 

[InsTwin]

  Try it here on optimal volume level
http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
 
I also have the new version with the 7 bar backplate, 2.5 plug connector and focusA pads, the 20hz is rolled off compared to my X1 where it really rumbles. But the 400i is cleaner sounding due to no mid bass hump and cleaner highs.
 
Also check your ears for hearing loss which can be found in that link (better if you can see an ear doctor for a more accurate test), a lot of people claim to hear things without even realizing the amount of hearing loss they already have especially at the 200hz down range which is more prone to damage in urban life.

Using this test and a bass frequency test album on Spotify I can say that I hear down to 15hz, but 15hz-20hz sounds rolled off in comparison 25hz-30hz.