Hiby R3 Pro Portable Bluetooth DAP
Jun 19, 2020 at 3:10 PM Post #781 of 2,068
My feelings exactly, if I don't have any 5.0 compatible devices why worry about it. I am not going to spend more money on new devices just for the sake of have bluetooth 5.0.
Good decision.
"
Only one change affected the Classic version within the specification of Bluetooth 5: support for the Slot Availability Mask (SAM) technology, designed to improve radio frequency sharing. All other changes affect only Bluetooth LE (the same applies to Higher Output Power too).

All audio devices use only Bluetooth Classic. Headphones and speakers cannot be connected via Bluetooth Low Energy. There is no standard for transmitting audio using LE. The A2DP standard, used to transmit high-quality audio, works only through Bluetooth Classic, and there is no equivalent in LE.

To sum up: buying audio devices with Bluetooth 5 only because of the new version of the protocol is meaningless. Bluetooth 4.0/4.1/4.2 in the context of audio transmission will work the same way.
If the announcement of the new headphone mentions a doubled radius and reduced power consumption thanks to Bluetooth 5, then you should know that they either do not understand themselves or mislead you. No wonder, even the manufacturers of Bluetooth chips confuse the difference in both standards, and some Bluetooth 5 chips support the fifth version only for LE, and use 4.2 for Classic. "
https://habr.com/en/post/456182/
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 4:19 PM Post #784 of 2,068
Just got my R3 pro Sabre and I have to say I love the way this sounds. I own an R6 and the Ibasso DX160 and to me it sounds better than the R6. I like the DX160 but the battery is really bad especially if the WiFi is on. For $209 I can’t think of anything better right now. I’m using campfire audio IO’s with it with a balanced cable. I listen to metal and jazz and both sound great.
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 4:48 PM Post #785 of 2,068
Instead of Tidal, I use Qobuz, but the HiBy R3 Pro works for either. Make sure your WiFi is turned on, then hold down the fourth icon from the left on the top menu (either the Tidal or Qobuz icon) until a little gray dialogue box appears where you choose one or the other. Select Tidal and you should be all set. You will have to log in to your Tidal account if it's the first time.
Thank you kind sir. My Pro Saber is now complete. Just another 30 or so hours of breakin.
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 5:07 PM Post #786 of 2,068
Now 98% is just an estimate but it's an estimate I arrived at by listening to both wired and ldac on the btr5. With some very complex material lol.
Complexity in terms of bitrate. A 96Khz 24bit flac file got a bitrate of around 2000kbs. LDAC can transmit a theoretical maximum of 990kbs, so you have at least 50% of lossy compression. Of course, this doesn't mean that it sounds only half as good.
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 6:35 PM Post #787 of 2,068
Where did you read that?

Most recently in the headfonics review which rated it very well for its bluetooth capabilities and range, snippet below:

Wireless
Oh, man is the Q1 good. You can use it to receive Bluetooth signals from your other phones or sources, and power your favorite headphones. I wish more Bluetooth devices had dual functionality. And considering how good the Q1 sounds, this is a powerful feature, especially if your source isn’t up to snuff.

It also throws pretty high-quality signals and for long distances. I can get almost 50 meters away from the Q1 when listening to my AirPods Pro, which is roughly in line with what I get when using an iPhone SE’s Bluetooth 4. Not top of the line, but nice.


I also owned the M0 for several months and it had really solid bluetooth performance considering it's tiny size.
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 7:02 PM Post #788 of 2,068
I find it interesting that 3 Linux based DAP's are using the same ESS 9218P chip given how many chips are out ther. Namely the Shanling M0, Q1 and now the R3 Pro Saber. The 9218P was released back in 2016 so it is a pretty old chip but very capable. It combines SOC/DAC/AMP on a single chip. "By integrating ESS audio building blocks, including the DAC, headphone amplifier, feedback resistors, and output switch into a single package, the ES9218P also reduces the amount board space used by the audio subsystem".

It is also pretty inexpensive selling for less than $8.00 US per unit in lots of 2500. By comparison the CS43131 DAC/AMP chip in the R3 Pro sells for around $8.14 US in lots of 1000 so the move to the 9218P chip should on paper not have increased the price of the Sabre version on its own. I have to wonder if Hiby used the ESS Sabre name to up the price and increase the profit margin.

Easy to see why 9218P is such a popular choice for these relatively inexpensive DAP's. Although I haven't demoed one and am going to assume the R3 Pro Sabre sounds slightly better than the Shanling Q1 based on using dual 9218P chips. Dual DAC's means it should offer better separation and staging than the Q1. The question for me is how much better does it sound given the much higher price. My hope is that once it is released in Canada the price will come down, fingers crossed.
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 7:18 PM Post #789 of 2,068
It's a question of being future-proof, as the next earphones you'll buy will be 5.0.

I only use wired headphones as I have yet to find a pair of bluetooth headphones that sound as good especially for the money. So bluetooth version is less of a concern for me than the actual bluetooth reliability of the DAP. All of my bluetooth speakers are bluetooth 4.0 or lower and support LDAC and have worked with all my DAP's without issue. Sometimes old and reliable is better than newer and fancier and usually cheaper to, kind of like me. :dt880smile:
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 7:23 PM Post #790 of 2,068
Complexity in terms of bitrate. A 96Khz 24bit flac file got a bitrate of around 2000kbs. LDAC can transmit a theoretical maximum of 990kbs, so you have at least 50% of lossy compression. Of course, this doesn't mean that it sounds only half as good.

Yes I said I wasn't talking about specs or numbers. I already know the ldac bandwidth limit . Do most people listen to 24 bit audio? No.

Chances are if you're going to listen to dsd or hi res, you're going to use it wired anyways. But for general listening it the bt sounds great. As does the q5s and ifi xdsd. My point was that LDAC/aptxhd can benefit from the added power output and the dacs and tuning of the output circuit.

You say it is pointless because of the bandwidth limitations- my ears tell me differently.
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 7:43 PM Post #791 of 2,068
I find it interesting that 3 Linux based DAP's are using the same ESS 9218P chip given how many chips are out ther. Namely the Shanling M0, Q1 and now the R3 Pro Saber. The 9218P was released back in 2016 so it is a pretty old chip but very capable. It combines SOC/DAC/AMP on a single chip. "By integrating ESS audio building blocks, including the DAC, headphone amplifier, feedback resistors, and output switch into a single package, the ES9218P also reduces the amount board space used by the audio subsystem".

It is also pretty inexpensive selling for less than $8.00 US per unit in lots of 2500. By comparison the CS43131 DAC/AMP chip in the R3 Pro sells for around $8.14 US in lots of 1000 so the move to the 9218P chip should on paper not have increased the price of the Sabre version on its own. I have to wonder if Hiby used the ESS Sabre name to up the price and increase the profit margin.

Easy to see why 9218P is such a popular choice for these relatively inexpensive DAP's. Although I haven't demoed one and am going to assume the R3 Pro Sabre sounds slightly better than the Shanling Q1 based on using dual 9218P chips. Dual DAC's means it should offer better separation and staging than the Q1. The question for me is how much better does it sound given the much higher price. My hope is that once it is released in Canada the price will come down, fingers crossed.

Any modern dac can sound excellent if implemented well. The specs of Snr and noise are beyond the threshold of human hearing. It's how good the output circuit and power circuits are designed and especially the LPF.

I don't put much stock in what dac is used. I've heard AKs sound sharp like sabres and sabers sound warm and smooth because of the way the output circuit was tuned.

Hiby tuned the r3ps more towards neutral, with very little added warmth. But it's a very dynamic sound with good bass and sub bass so it doesn't sound totally thin or analytical.
Honestly, I only got the r3p saber model because it was 'new' and the battery life was good.

Good luck on your search.

And of course take everything you read here with a grain of salt. :wink: opinions and specs really mean nothing. Best thing is to demo or if that's not possible buy from a place with a good return policy.

Only YOUR ears matter.
 
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Jun 19, 2020 at 7:47 PM Post #792 of 2,068
Yes I said I wasn't talking about specs or numbers. I already know the ldac bandwidth limit . Do most people listen to 24 bit audio? No.

Chances are if you're going to listen to dsd or hi res, you're going to use it wired anyways. But for general listening it the bt sounds great. As does the q5s and ifi xdsd. My point was that LDAC/aptxhd can benefit from the added power output and the dacs and tuning of the output circuit.

You say it is pointless because of the bandwidth limitations- my ears tell me differently.

You tell him deef,

I agree with you 100%, I can't hear a difference alot of the time between 24 bit or 16 bit tracks wired let alone wireless. I have listened to LDAC extensively on all 3 quality settings and usually can't hear a difference. I stick with standard at 660 Kbps since signal is a little more reliable. Seems to me some people spend most of their time focusing on the specs instead of listening to the music. If it sounds good to my ears the specs mean diddly.
 
Jun 19, 2020 at 8:01 PM Post #793 of 2,068
Any modern dac can sound excellent if implemented well. The specs of Snr and noise are beyond the threshold of human hearing. It's how good the output circuit and power circuits are designed and especially the LPF.

I don't put much stock in what dac is used. I've heard AKs sound sharp like sabres and sabers sound warm and smooth because of the way the output circuit was tuned.

Hiby tuned the r3ps more towards neutral, with very little added warmth. But it's a very dynamic sound with good bass and sub bass so it doesn't sound totally thin or analytical.
Honestly, I only got the r3p saber model because it was 'new' and the battery life was good.

Good luck on your search.

I wasn't thinking in terms of implementation and tuning as I know very well that tuning can very quite a bit having been involved with audio gear for decades . The computer geek in me was simply interested in why the 9218P is such a popular choice and I decided to post my findings. But the choice of DAC and Amp or in this case DAC/Amp chip and cost of the chip is as much a factor as tuning in the design of a DAP at a given price point. I was curious to see for my own edification if cost of the chip was a factor in Hiby choosing to release the Sabre version. When I am not in a position to demo a product I like to research other aspects of the products I am considering to help in my decision making. Sometimes researching components plays a factor in choice of audio products I buy, what's under the hood so to speak can be important and can help to determine if product is over priced for the quality of components you are getting
 
Jun 20, 2020 at 10:33 AM Post #794 of 2,068
Just wanted to check one more time if anyone with the new R3 Pro Sabre is having any wifi problems? I'm standing right next to my router/modem and when I'm in Tidal, it's taking 20-30 seconds between commands (Ffwd/Rwd, play, back). Neither my R5 nor any other device in my home is struggling to near this degree on wifi.
 
Jun 20, 2020 at 10:52 AM Post #795 of 2,068
Just got my R3 pro Sabre and I have to say I love the way this sounds. I own an R6 and the Ibasso DX160 and to me it sounds better than the R6. I like the DX160 but the battery is really bad especially if the WiFi is on. For $209 I can’t think of anything better right now. I’m using campfire audio IO’s with it with a balanced cable. I listen to metal and jazz and both sound great.

Ok, your comment convinced me. I just bought a R3Pro Saber from the Hiby page. My last dap was an ibasso dx120, it didn't last me more than 8 months because the battery swelled up, stay away from Ibasso please. And I didn't have a dap several months ago, I was just using the dunu dk2001 with the dragonfly red connected to the laptop.
 

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