Help picking DAC

[martinrajdl]

Hi, so I've recently purchased the Valhalla 2 and I would like to get a new DAC to go alongside with it, since my E10 is definitely the bottleneck in my current setup (also, the noise floor is pretty unbearable). 
I have narrowed my search to the following:
-  JDS labs ODAC (seems like a safe bet, but no extra features and there might be some better things out there)
-  Schiit Bifrost USB (3x as expensive as ODAC, not sure I would hear a significant difference)
-  Schiit Modi 2 U  (currently out of stock in the store in the country, but I could wait for it) 
-  CA DacMagic Plus (tempting, cheaper than Bifrost, many features, some people prefer it to Bifrost, some don't) 
-  HRT Musicstreamer III (?) 
-  Aune X1s (Even though it's DAC/AMP combo, it is probably my favorite so far and it is only slightly more expensive than standalone ODAC)
 
I understand that not many people need to own more than one or most of these at the same time, but I will appreciate any input. 
What I am really asking is - is ODAC any better than X1s AND is stepping up the budget to DM+ or Bifrost even remotely worth over just getting plain ODAC. 
Again, any input appreciated. Thanks.
 
Edit: Also I will be using it with HD600 and hopefully some other cans in the future if that matters. 

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

I can't say anything about the 6 DACs you have mentioned but I can say that I am having problems with my FiiO E10. It didn't seem to have any background noise / interference on my old PC but since I got my new PC, I can hear everything my PC is doing. Such as when I move my mouse around over icons, I just hear loads of clicks and pops. They may be quiet but they are very noticeable when my PC is busy at the same time as listening to quiet pieces of music.
 
Since then, I bought the S.M.S.L SD-793II and have been very pleased with it. It isn't a big upgrade though. It just doesn't have any of that interference or background noise. It also has more inputs. The problem for some may be the lack of USB though.
 
I think there has been a new version of this DAC with a new name that has replaced it. The S.M.S.L TARION TRD80. It looks pretty much identical.
 
I have done a review on it here but others will probably recommend something better. This will be a great cheap option though if you don't mind using either and optical or coaxial input.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/803402/impression-s-m-s-l-sd-793ii-audio-dac-headphone-amplifier

 

[martinrajdl]

Thanks for the response @TheGiantHogweed and yes, the E10 is incredibly irritating. However, I never noticed any noise when I was using it with the e09K, but when I got the Valhalla 2 the noise became very pronounced. I thought it was the tubes and that it was supposed to be like this, but then I had it accidentally unplugged and realised that the E10 was the source of the noise. Anyway thanks for the recommendation, but smsl isn't being sold in my country and it would be definitely more convenient and even possibly cheaper than ordering anything by smsl from abroad. 
Anyway thanks again, I've read through your review and have to say, very nice and thorough. 

 

[fallingsnowfy]

From my experience you wont notice a huge difference between DACs, I own The ODAC and I can tell that they do make a significant difference from my PC. Bi frost  has been review and the person could not tell the difference between it and another DAC. So dont expect a huge or a world difference even from a thousand dollar DAC. I can recommend the ODAC is a little bright but it would reveal a lot of detail, i think is great for music. 

 

[fallingsnowfy]

If you need more connection option you could go for the Modi 2 uber from Schiit. I do not own it but has good reviews. Although some people prefer the ODAC over the Modi 2 in terms of sound quality.

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

 

I am noticing that very few seem to ship to Czech Republic. I live in the UK and bought it from here on amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Decoder-DIR9001-PCM1793-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B013HL9NW4/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1468585265&sr=1-2&keywords=smsl
 
It looks like if I add it to my basket though, there is an option of shipping it to Czech Republic. It has also gone down £11 since I bought it. I got it for £51. My FiiO E10 was £61.
 
Depending on how much the shipping costs are, it still may actually be pretty good value as this model has been reduced as it is no longer made. The price including delivery will probably add up to about the same or maybe even less than when it was new. It might be worth looking into this to see how much it will add up to.
 
 
More about the E10 though, I originally didn't think it was that bad. It just seems very picky about what you use it with. I didn't hear any background computer noise with my old PC but it sounds awful with my new one. Sound quality isn't a problem though. It is just that amplified computer noise that drives me mad. Even if I plug an external CD/DVD drive into my PC, you can hear the chugging noise from the disk spinning coming from that pass through my computer and coming to my E10. I don't understand why it can't get rid of these sounds. Either the E10 is very poor or my new PC allows noise to travel through the PC to every USB port.

 

[martinrajdl]

  From my experience you wont notice a huge difference between DACs, I own The ODAC and I can tell that they do make a significant difference from my PC. Bi frost  has been review and the person could not tell the difference between it and another DAC. So dont expect a huge or a world difference even from a thousand dollar DAC. I can recommend the ODAC is a little bright but it would reveal a lot of detail, i think is great for music. 

After some more research and thinking, I am starting to think I will either get the ODAC or the X1s. The only thing with ODAC that bothers me, is how stupid it will look. It won't really have a front or back since I would get the RCA version and I will probably hide it under the desk, which irks me a bit... and the X1s is awesome build and only a little bit more expensive, but I can't find much information about how its dac compared to odac. Too bad the MODI2U is out of stock, but I might end up ordering it and waiting about a month. Eh ... I don't know.
 
@TheGiantHogweed The SMSL SD-793II is looking pretty interesting too, but I think I would like to get something that is slightly better in terms of sound quality (even though I might now hear any difference in the end... but still, something that would keep me internally satisfied down the road without the upgrading itch would be nice) but then again, the cost with the fact that the SQ might be just good enough... tempting, I will look more into how much the final cost would be. 
 
Thank you both for the input. I have crossed out the bifrost, since it's most definitely not worth the extra cash. 

 

[fallingsnowfy]

Watch the review of the x1 on youtube, I think is a great combo. You would find little to no diference bettewn the odac and the x1

 

[martinrajdl]

Watch the review of the x1 on youtube, I think is a great combo. You would find little to no diference bettewn the odac and the x1

I did watch Zeos's review some time ago and it was very convincing and now a store in the country will have it in stock next week (for the first time). He even stated in the comments that the dac part is just as good as the ODAC. All that alongside with its build quality (and how good will it look on a desk 

) and the price tag that is just a little over the standalone ODAC... But since I will be using is just as a DAC I still wonder if the ODAC isn't a little better sounding - even though I might now hear the difference. So ... yeah, not quite decided, but the ODAC and the X1s are strong contenders. 

 

[martinrajdl]

So I ended up buying odac. Got it today. Sounds good, almost no noise, but it's not completely silent with Valhalla 2, but a huge improvement compared to E10. More testing of SQ to be done later, but I am pretty happy with it so far. Also, the USB cable that comes with it is really nice quality. 

 

[fallingsnowfy]

The reason you are hearing noise probably  the tube amp. Tube amp create noise, thats why they sound different. Tube amp is an older technology, replaced by transistors. Is not that tubes are bad but they produce sound differently.

 

[martinrajdl]

  The reason you are hearing noise probably  the tube amp. Tube amp create noise, thats why they sound different. Tube amp is an older technology, replaced by transistors. Is not that tubes are bad but they produce sound differently.

Weeel not really. I am aware of the "hum" the amp makes, and as I explained above, I thought that the amp produced quite a bit of noise as well, but I was wrong and I found out when I unpluged the DAC from the USB, it turns out the E10 I have created insanely annoying noise and as I just said, the ODAC eliminates most of the noise, but the hum from the amp is still there, just as it was before. Anyway, thanks for the response. 

 

[martinrajdl]

  The reason you are hearing noise probably  the tube amp. Tube amp create noise, thats why they sound different. Tube amp is an older technology, replaced by transistors. Is not that tubes are bad but they produce sound differently.

Interestingly enough, today I picked a pair of new RCA cables from company called Dynavox (I should probably write a review on them, because it is the product with the best packaging and presentation I have ever seen, yet they were not expensive at all - they are also incredibly well made) and the hum is gone. The Amp is now (nearly) dead silent.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Originally Posted by fallingsnowfy /img/forum/go_quote.gif

From my experience you wont notice a huge difference between DACs, I own The ODAC and I can tell that they do make a significant difference from my PC. Bi frost  has been review and the person could not tell the difference between it and another DAC. So dont expect a huge or a world difference even from a thousand dollar DAC. I can recommend the ODAC is a little bright but it would reveal a lot of detail, i think is great for music. 

 

Well he was talking about an audible noise floor on his E10K, and the goal was to eliminate that.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinrajdl /img/forum/go_quote.gif

So I ended up buying odac. Got it today. Sounds good, almost no noise, but it's not completely silent with Valhalla 2, but a huge improvement compared to E10. More testing of SQ to be done later, but I am pretty happy with it so far. Also, the USB cable that comes with it is really nice quality. 

 

Apart from a bit of tube hum, the noise you still have might be due to the USB off your motherboard. A DAC using its own power supply plugged into the wall will do a lot more to eliminate that noise, ex the Modi2 Uber, and more so if you used SPDIF. Since you already have the ODAC, try a USB Isolator with it. There are some on eBay and Amazon, and there's also the Schiit Decrapifier (which would be double the price but it comes with a case and PSU).

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

 

 

Well he was talking about an audible noise floor on his E10K, and the goal was to eliminate that.

 

Apart from a bit of tube hum, the noise you still have might be due to the USB off your motherboard. A DAC using its own power supply plugged into the wall will do a lot more to eliminate that noise, ex the Modi2 Uber, and more so if you used SPDIF. Since you already have the ODAC, try a USB Isolator with it. There are some on eBay and Amazon, and there's also the Schiit Decrapifier (which would be double the price but it comes with a case and PSU).

I think it is the original E10 that martinrajdl has. I too have the original E10 one and I think it is known for having these issues. I don't think the E10k is as bad.
 
I just don't know why I didn't get this background noise at all with my old PC and the E10. Ever since I got my new PC, the noise coming through the USB ports is awful, or at least it is with the E10. My FiiO X3 doesn't have any audible background noise when using USB.
 
I went for the S.M.S.L SD-793II DAC and that seems to have solved my issue completely. I use the optical input and there is now only a slight hiss and that is only noticeable when not playing music and turning the dial up to full. That is far louder that I would ever go anyway.