[nonns]

Hi Folks,

I've done the review reading. The post searchign and so forth and though I get all sorts of ideas I'm no closer to being able to choose IEM's. I currently spend most of my listening time listening to a set of Grado RS1i's on an ASUS STX Soundcard. My music has been ripped to lossless FLAC using DB power amp. When not using earphones I listen to a Micromega premium 20 cd player through a Krell KAV300i through a set of Sonus Faber Concertos with some Nordost Red Dawn interconnects (for the life of me I can't remeber what the speaker cable is). I also have an Ipod classic 160GB and aset of ShureE3C's for portable kicks. The Grado's have had me yearnign for better sound out of my Ipod (up till now I've been listening on my Ipod to mp3's ripped at 320kbps. The grado's have me yearnging for better sound so I've switched to apple lossless on the Ipod.

Now music wise I have wide tastes (I mean wide. Punk/Rock/Ska/Pop/reggae/Jazz/Bluegrass/Classical/Opera/Electronica/New Age and so forth)
I like a brightish sound. I like to hear fingers creeping along guitar strings. I like the breathlessness of some singer trying to hit a highish note gently (its hard to explain. The Krell drives the music. The Red Dawn cables are brightish. The Sonus Faber Speakers smooth it off and make it musical (they make my feet tap).

The Shure E3c's whilst good have never really done that - mind you compared to the stock Ipod earphones they're brilliant.

I have read numerous reviews. I am still no closer to making up my mind between Shure 530's Westones, monster turbine pros (either gold or copper),Klipsch X10's or Grado GR8's.

What is likely to significantly improve on what I've got now Shure E3's wise?
What is likely to give me the things I crave. 'm not a base head but music with no base is incomplete. I like brightness and clarity. I like drive. I like things to start when they should start and cut off when they should cut off (try Jethro Tull's roots to branhces track on something that gives no order or sounds muddies or imprecise and you'll see exactly what I'm not looking for). Most of all I like musicality.

Can you help?

I have no particular prejudices ref manufacturer. Like everyone else I want value for money. I am not prepared to spring for much beyond the Shure Se530's price wise. This means around £400 GBP tops I guess.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[iponderous]

Can you really hear the difference between 320 kbps and Lossless? What are you part canine? I've only heard the SE530's out of the phones that you've mentioned. Somehow I don't think they'll meet your musical expectations if you're a Grado fan.

 

[nonns]

Yeah I can though how much depends on the music and the recording quality also. It could be of course that the differences I' hearign are more tonal than quality. I also hear some artefacts from time to time.

I like the grado's but I'm not sure if I know what the Grado sounds means. They're certainly clear and to my ears reasonably precise. I also think they're a little forward (that is they push the music at you rather than just letting it happen - which the Shure E3's seem to - I quite like the forward presentation.

Ultimately I guess I'm looking for something which improves (hopefully quite a lot) on what I've got now.

 

[Mochan]

I can't believe you're not happy with the RS1's.

Anyway:
Shure 530's
Westones
monster turbine pros (either gold or copper)
Klipsch X10's
Grado GR8's.

I'm assuming you want the Westone 3's. Of those stuff I've only heard the 530s, the X10s and I have checked out the original Turbines.

Of those three I would easily say the X10 is the best. For me and my type of sound and music, anyway. They are smoother than the 530s with a warmer, sweeter bass and better highs. They also beat out the Turbines, which have a similar sound but sometimes sound so rich they get muddied. Turbines also are harder to fit and less comfy, and have worse build quality. I don't now if the Turbine Pros are much better.

Your music taste would tell me the X10s are your phones. But you said you like bright sound, X10s aren't exactly bright but they have good treble for you to hear fingers over the fretboard and strings and they bring out "breathy" vocals perfectly.

So yeah I'd recommend the X10s.

As for comparing to the Shure E3's. You said you like brightness and clarity, well the IEMs you mentioned aren't exactly known to be bright. The original turbines were kind of lacking in clarity, but they have DRIVE and Musicality. I would say the same of the X10s.

All three of these are a HUGE step up from the E3's, but they sound totally different. You mentioned you like musicality and were quite happy with the E3's, personally I hated the E3s and felt they were too cold and analytical, no drive and no musicality. The X10s and Turbines give you all that, but I would lean to the X10s if you need more clarity.

 

[james444]

Out of those you mentioned the SE530 and X10 are not especially famous for good highs. The others I haven't heard.

Recommended phones that I have heard:
- Ortofon e-Q7 (same driver as Grado GR8)
- Audio Technica CK100 (though mids are somewhat colored)
- Panasonic HJE900 (bargain choice, nevertheless very good)

Potentially interesting phones that I haven't heard:
- Audio Technica CK10
- Etys

 

[nonns]

Oh dear I've obviously expressed myself really badly - I do apologise. I do like the Grado RS1's. I love them. Its the Shure E3's I'm not as convinced of. I like the forward presentation of the Grado's. I like their clarity and the detail I hear. hence the reason I said I like the fact that the Grados push the music at you whereas the E3's seem largely passive - the E3's have an I can't be bothered attitude to their sound so they don't involve me.

The E3's are simply OK. I liked them only because they were significantly better than the stock Apple phones. They gave me more detail than the Apple rubbish. They don't seem that musical though.

 

[nonns]

Should have said I'm not at all sure I want theWestones at all. They're a lot of money and the reviews I've read seem not to be too conclusive either way about whether they're better than the Shure's/Klipsch/ortofon/Ety's/UE and so forth. I'm sure they're good but are they better than any of the others and do they fit the brief. The Klipsch and Ortofons sound promising from the reviews. I'm not fortunate to be in a place where I can hear these phones so I'm having to rely on opinion.

 

[Mochan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonns /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah I can though how much depends on the music and the recording quality also. It could be of course that the differences I' hearign are more tonal than quality. I also hear some artefacts from time to time. I like the grado's but I'm not sure if I know what the Grado sounds means. They're certainly clear and to my ears reasonably precise. I also think they're a little forward (that is they push the music at you rather than just letting it happen - which the Shure E3's seem to - I quite like the forward presentation. Ultimately I guess I'm looking for something which improves (hopefully quite a lot) on what I've got now.

I personally haven't heard the RS1s, too expensive for my budget, though I hope to give them a listen I have friends who actually collect those. Grados have a distinct sound signature, very forward and aggressive with bright and sparkly trebles, excellent clear yet lively I would even say dancing midrange and some tight punchy well-defined bass. They are also very easy to drive and sound great even at low volumes -- they don't lose much detail even at low playing levels.

That's what I gather from my SR60s which are entry level Grados. I have better cans that I prefer to the SR60 but they are not bad at all especially for the price. That's the "budget Grado" sound I still want to listen to a higher end Grado, and what you have is one of the best.

I'm surprised that you find the Shure e3c comparable to the Grado's. I haven't heard that in a while but I hated it. Very cold and analytical sound. Quite bright but totally lacking in warmth, with a lifeless bass and thin reedy-sounding treble and mids. They are indeed quite forward in presentation similar to the Grado's but the overall sound quality is leagues apart. And that was in comparison to my entry-level SR60, can't imagine how different it would be from the RS1.

The X10 is a huge improvement over the e3c but is a totally different kind of monster from the e3c or the Grados (I'm assuming the RS1 sounds similar to my SR60, only 100x better). It's a darkish headphone with a supremely delicious bass that extends well and gives total body and warmth to the overall sound -- unlike the e3c or SR60 which has bass "just there" and the real star is the aggressive mids. It still has the same treble sparkle although kind of different in quality. Hard to describe right now I'm doing it off memory.

But anyway yeah it's a big improvement IMO, however temper your expectations it's not a Rank 1 to Rank 10 improvement of the same kind of sound, but a totally different kind altogether.

 

[nonns]

Nooo the Shure E3c's dont begin to grovel at the feet of the Grado's. I bought my e3c's long before I bought the Grado's. That is the reason for my dissatisfaction with the E3c's. I never listened to headphones before the e3c's - they were my intro to better headphones. The RS1's I got to hear and they just blew me away. Now I want something that can get me closer to the RS1's when I'm listening to my ipod in the office or on the train or on a plane.

 

[Mochan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonns /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh dear I've obviously expressed myself really badly - I do apologise. I do like the Grado RS1's. I love them. Its the Shure E3's I'm not as convinced of. I like the forward presentation of the Grado's. I like their clarity and the detail I hear. hence the reason I said I like the fact that the Grados push the music at you whereas the E3's seem largely passive - the E3's have an I can't be bothered attitude to their sound so they don't involve me. The E3's are simply OK. I liked them only because they were significantly better than the stock Apple phones. They gave me more detail than the Apple rubbish. They don't seem that musical though.

Ah, ok I thought you were looking for something better than your RS1s, I'm like... the hell! Hahah.

But I agree with your assertion. Actually I'm a huge Shure hater. I totally hate especially the earlier "e" series (e2c, e3c, e4c) which I felt was nothing but overpriced turd with absolutely no musicality. The way you described the e3c is about how I would describe it. They're just not involving. The 530 is a huge step up and is more fun, and is also like 5 times the price lol. I would steer you to the X10 instead which IMO is a similar sound, but actually better and it's cheaper to boot. I guess I just have a bone to pick with Shure.

X10 is very, very musical. And quite a different animal from your Grado's, so it will be a new experience. Go ahead, I strongly urge you to give them a try. You'll be wondering why the e3cs are even considered an earphone when you compare them to the X10s.

 

[nonns]

Oooh that sounds good. On the subject of the RS1's I struggle to think one could better the sound by much. One might get a different sound but to really improve I suspect you'd have to spend thousands.

 

[Mochan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonns /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nooo the Shure E3c's dont begin to grovel at the feet of the Grado's. I bought my e3c's long before I bought the Grado's. That is the reason for my dissatisfaction with the E3c's. I never listened to headphones before the e3c's - they were my intro to better headphones. The RS1's I got to hear and they just blew me away. Now I want something that can get me closer to the RS1's when I'm listening to my ipod in the office or on the train or on a plane.

Perhaps the challenge you face now is that you are going to be very hard to please! You've heard the creme dela creme of the audio world, the Grado RS1s which are considered one of the best cans in the world. Might be a little hard to please you know with a dinky little IEM haha.

 

[iponderous]

What the SE530's do share with Grado's is forward mids. I'm doing some comparisons between them, the TF10's and the IE8's at the moment.

 

[Mochan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonns /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oooh that sounds good. On the subject of the RS1's I struggle to think one could better the sound by much. One might get a different sound but to really improve I suspect you'd have to spend thousands.

Probably not too many cans that sound better. The Grado PS1 is supposed to be better, but I've long since learned that more expensive isn't always better, and that your own personal taste factors greatly in what will sound best.

Other contenders I guess would be the Denon D7000, Senn HD800 and Ultrasone E8. And yeah those breach the thousand dollar mark. I have no idea what they sound like, I can only dream to have those cans some day.

 

[james444]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonns /img/forum/go_quote.gif I like a brightish sound. I like to hear fingers creeping along guitar strings. I like the breathlessness of some singer trying to hit a highish note gently (its hard to explain. The Krell drives the music. The Red Dawn cables are brightish. The Sonus Faber Speakers smooth it off and make it musical (they make my feet tap). .... I like brightness and clarity. I like drive. I like things to start when they should start and cut off when they should cut off (try Jethro Tull's roots to branhces track on something that gives no order or sounds muddies or imprecise and you'll see exactly what I'm not looking for). Most of all I like musicality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mochan /img/forum/go_quote.gif X10 is very, very musical. And quite a different animal from your Grado's, so it will be a new experience. Go ahead, I strongly urge you to give them a try. You'll be wondering why the e3cs are even considered an earphone when you compare them to the X10s.

Considering the OP's preference for a brightish sound, do you really think the X10 will fit his bill?