[surfgeorge]

Hi..these are the few shortlisted used DAPs under my consideration. All of these is priced around the same as a new mid range DAP (ie : DX160, M11) which is under my consideration as well. Since it's quite impossible to find a comparison review of all these DAPs I hope this forum could assist my selection :

...

Sony NW-ZX1
Mixed reviews. Not sure if it should be made part of the list.

Sony NW-Zx300
Mixed reviews. Not sure if it should be made part of the list.

I bought a NW-ZX2 maybe a year or 1,5 years ago and sold it soon after.
SQ was ok, but the Android version was old, slow and could not be upgraded.
That old Android version was also not supported any more by Tidal, so I had to install an old Tidal version.
Last but not least the ZX2 was a EU version with volume cap, and not powerful enough for more demanding IEMs

Lesson learned
Sticking to my Mojo

 

[Kejusan]

I'd recommend looking into Cowon if you want something only to listen to local files with. Otherwise, the DX160 and Hiby R5 are good choices. I previously owned the Opus#1s, which was plagued with battery issues. I prefer the sound of my Hiby R5, even though they both use Cirrus Logic dac chips. As for easy battery replacement, you would need to do your research on the individual daps.

What Cowon would you suggest? I've done some research on Plenue D and most of the reviews complains on the UI. Since I'm DAP-less for now, I listens to my downloaded music from my phone using HibyMusic and that is my baseline for a good UI. Previously I used Foobar but I suit more to HibyMusic.

 

[mwhals]

Yes, I realized that the battery replacement for qp1r is not available on the web. Non touch screen should be ok as long as the UI is good. How would you rate the UI and the sound? Some describe it as being too dry.

I think the UI is fine if you have a QP1R with the newer wheel fix like I do. The UI works fine for me with, but I have my music organized by alphabet letter. I think it sounds great, but it is bested by the Hiby R8 in my opinion. The QP1R is more analytical to my ears.

 

[theMUKe]

Long time ago I had the Opus#1 for a few months.

It's a decent premium DAP with very good SQ - I would agree with neutral transparent. The UI seemed stable and touchscreen was fine. But mostly a touch screen is not needed as functionality is limited. No streaming apps etc.

Above all, it's not really a portable DAC I would say. It's pretty heavy and bulky. Don't think it would be ideal for you.

 

[Morphious]

I think the A & K's at $400 range is a steal. It's the build quality as well as the sound that make these a jewell. Sound quality, it is extremely neutral and will not wash or color a recording or hide its flaws. But you can adjust the EQ as needed.

As you know I do have an AK120ii forsale - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bra...0ii-and-ak100ii.718321/page-445#post-15919091

 

[Mhog55]

What Cowon would you suggest? I've done some research on Plenue D and most of the reviews complains on the UI. Since I'm DAP-less for now, I listens to my downloaded music from my phone using HibyMusic and that is my baseline for a good UI. Previously I used Foobar but I suit more to HibyMusic.

For sound quality alone, I'd recommend the M2, and then the P2. The R2 is nice as well - has a little more power output, but it uses different (Cirrus Logic) dac chips... As does the Hiby R5. It's my preference, as it suits my desires for rock and metal. I also really like the Hiby music app, but I also use UAPP quite a bit. People really seem to enjoy Cowons Jet Effects feature.

 

[Kejusan]

Have you considered iBasso DX200 or 150? Never used myself, but you can find those for decent prices, and I believe the battery is accessible without a heat gun? (see twister's teardown https://twister6.com/2017/07/05/inside-the-dx200-literally/ )

I haven't done much research on DX200 since few had mentioned that DX160 is close to DX220 and since DX200 is less superior in terms of SQ from DX220, I've built the mindset that it's better to go to DX160 rather than DX200. But I missed one parameter which is the replaceable amp and apparently I've found a used one with Amp8, which is said to be far superior than Amp1! Needs to do more research on that amp and include it in my 'observation list'.

 

[ehjie]

I haven't done much research on DX200 since few had mentioned that DX160 is close to DX220 and since DX200 is less superior in terms of SQ from DX220, I've built the mindset that it's better to go to DX160 rather than DX200. But I missed one parameter which is the replaceable amp and apparently I've found a used one with Amp8, which is said to be far superior than Amp1! Needs to do more research on that amp and include it in my 'observation list'.

on amp1 markii, basis on SQ, amp 8 & amp9 superior.
The amp1ii was created for battery savings, with compromise on sq.
It will be obvious to the listener, said amp has smaller staging, most notably on the height.
With efficient iems (i.e.12 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance), back up time can reach 8 hours...

 

[Redcarmoose]

I really don't have big experience testing DAPs. Though I have been using headphones a super long time. I also think I know what sounds good; especially to myself.

The thing is, is considering power output. There is always a chance that future DAPs and DAPs I have not tried would have the power you need. The most power hungry IEMs I have are the Sony IER-Z1R. With that said the Walkman 1A and 1Z are just powerful enough for them. Of course there are going to be elitist forums which state that the IER-Z1R is still underpowered by the Walkmans? To me all is well and I'm pretty critical of the sonic artifacts due to too low of juice.

The double edge swords of course with the Sony 1A and 1Z is 4.4mm. Personally I love 4.4mm but it was difficult to find cables when it first came out. I would guess it now would be a hassle if someone had a whole 2.5mm or 3.5mm collection of IEMs with cables? But the advantage is you have balanced to basically use everywhere in the Sony Ecosystem. The TA desktop has balanced, the Walkmans do. People think somehow balanced is better and that's never been proven by any engineer. What we do do know is Sony put the better amp in the 4.4mm balanced side of the players. So balanced is slightly more powerful and due to (amp quality maybe) has better imaging and separation. Obviously 4.4mm is thicker and stronger, also offers always more contact area.

So other things to consider is battery life, battery change life and firmware update-ability. It's like 20-30 hours on the 1A/1Z. The charge cycle is recommended at 1000 charge cycles, yet there are people with 3000-6000 hours of listening which is way more that 1000 charges. The players don't even get slightly warm. The Sony Coporation has still been supporting the players with cool new updates even though they came out in 2016.

Though the best part has been the new innovation in firmware by enthusiasts. Basically the new firmware has unlocked the sound quality potential which has been slightly maybe tailored back? There is a new update called DMP-Z1MK1 that brings the 1Z into the close proximity of sounding like the 10K Sony DMP-Z1 desktop. Also in the next few days a DMP-Z1MK2 will be introduced to bring the $600 USD used, $1200 USD new Sony Walkman 1A into a new and exciting sound. I have been testing it the last couple days and it's something really special.

Obviously if something sounds good to you it's totally subjective, yet these new qualities are based on regular audiophile concepts of listening sound quality which may transcend subjectivity? People who have used the 1Z with aftermarket DMP-Z1MK1 firmware by MrWalkman feel the player climbs to the the top of the DAP market. These conclusions normally would be fairly strange for a 2016 device of any kind? Yet it's due to the FPGA process of not using off the shelf DAC chips or a regular DAC/AMP process for decoding and amplification.

This rambling wall of texts would simply suggest to give them a listen or keep up with the progress. Our 40,000 page Sony Walkman thread ends as a great resource of those wanting to lean more than I have jotted down here.

Edit:
The great part is we have never heard of someone needing to replace a battery ever. That’s big deal when deciding on used.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-sony-walkman-1z-1a-thread.944508/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-wm1a.815841/



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-walkman-os-fw-mods-non-android.943661/

I would suggest getting a used Walkman, then update to DMP-Z1MK2 when it drops.

Cheers!

PM me with questions!

 

[Kejusan]

on amp1 markii, basis on SQ, amp 8 & amp9 superior.
The amp1ii was created for battery savings, with compromise on sq.
It will be obvious to the listener, said amp has smaller staging, most notably on the height.
With efficient iems (i.e.12 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance), back up time can reach 8 hours...

Based on my ongoing research, DX200 seems to fit in my criteria except for the portability. It looks like a tank which speaks for its built quality but the size seems not too pocketable. I live in the part of the world where the sun shines almost everyday thus no jackets on most days that could fit in bulky items. And it seems like it's not easy to find the module amp where I live.

I really don't have big experience testing DAPs. Though I have been using headphones a super long time. I also think I know what sounds good; especially to myself.

The thing is, is considering power output. There is always a chance that future DAPs and DAPs I have not tried would have the power you need. The most power hungry IEMs I have are the Sony IER-Z1R. With that said the Walkman 1A and 1Z are just powerful enough for them. Of course there are going to be elitist forums which state that the IER-Z1R is still underpowered by the Walkmans? To me all is well and I'm pretty critical of the sonic artifacts due to too low of juice.

The double edge swords of course with the Sony 1A and 1Z is 4.4mm. Personally I love 4.4mm but it was difficult to find cables when it first came out. I would guess it now would be a hassle if someone had a whole 2.5mm or 3.5mm collection of IEMs with cables? But the advantage is you have balanced to basically use everywhere in the Sony Ecosystem. The TA desktop has balanced, the Walkmans do. People think somehow balanced is better and that's never been proven by any engineer. What we do do know is Sony put the better amp in the 4.4mm balanced side of the players. So balanced is slightly more powerful and due to (amp quality maybe) has better imaging and separation. Obviously 4.4mm is thicker and stronger, also offers always more contact area.

So other things to consider is battery life, battery change life and firmware update-ability. It's like 20-30 hours on the 1A/1Z. The charge cycle is recommended at 1000 charge cycles, yet there are people with 3000-6000 hours of listening which is way more that 1000 charges. The players don't even get slightly warm. The Sony Coporation has still been supporting the players with cool new updates even though they came out in 2016.

Though the best part has been the new innovation in firmware by enthusiasts. Basically the new firmware has unlocked the sound quality potential which has been slightly maybe tailored back? There is a new update called DMP-Z1MK1 that brings the 1Z into the close proximity of sounding like the 10K Sony DMP-Z1 desktop. Also in the next few days a DMP-Z1MK2 will be introduced to bring the $600 USD used, $1200 USD new Sony Walkman 1A into a new and exciting sound. I have been testing it the last couple days and it's something really special.

Obviously if something sounds good to you it's totally subjective, yet these new qualities are based on regular audiophile concepts of listening sound quality which may transcend subjectivity? People who have used the 1Z with aftermarket DMP-Z1MK1 firmware by MrWalkman feel the player climbs to the the top of the DAP market. These conclusions normally would be fairly strange for a 2016 device of any kind? Yet it's due to the FPGA process of not using off the shelf DAC chips or a regular DAC/AMP process for decoding and amplification.

This rambling wall of texts would simply suggest to give them a listen or keep up with the progress. Our 40,000 page Sony Walkman thread ends as a great resource of those wanting to lean more than I have jotted down here.

Edit:
The great part is we have never heard of someone needing to replace a battery ever. That’s big deal when deciding on used.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-sony-walkman-1z-1a-thread.944508/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-wm1a.815841/



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-walkman-os-fw-mods-non-android.943661/




I would suggest getting a used Walkman, then update to DMP-Z1MK2 when it drops.

Cheers!

PM me with questions!

Thanks for the lengthy explanation! I get the same impression that the Sony Walkman worth considering to be bought used is WM1A/1Z as the others are outshined by other brands which are at the same price range. But WM1Z is way above my budget (even at used price) and although used WM1A is cheaper than 1Z, it's still slightly more than my budget.

When you suggest to get a used Walkman do you mean any Walkman could be updated to DMP-Z1MK2 or specific to 1A/1Z? I believe it's also possible to update the NW-A series to ZX300 mods but I have the impression that it will be more complicated than installing mods for Ibasso for instance (ie: Lurker).

 

[Redcarmoose]

Based on my ongoing research, DX200 seems to fit in my criteria except for the portability. It looks like a tank which speaks for its built quality but the size seems not too pocketable. I live in the part of the world where the sun shines almost everyday thus no jackets on most days that could fit in bulky items. And it seems like it's not easy to find the module amp where I live.



Thanks for the lengthy explanation! I get the same impression that the Sony Walkman worth considering to be bought used is WM1A/1Z as the others are outshined by other brands which are at the same price range. But WM1Z is way above my budget (even at used price) and although used WM1A is cheaper than 1Z, it's still slightly more than my budget.

When you suggest to get a used Walkman do you mean any Walkman could be updated to DMP-Z1MK2 or specific to 1A/1Z? I believe it's also possible to update the NW-A series to ZX300 mods but I have the impression that it will be more complicated than installing mods for Ibasso for instance (ie: Lurker).

I thought I may be showing you something that was over budget. But then I thought? I’m just going to write stuff anyway. Especially when I just heard about someone getting one for $500. My intentions were to just get you to take a look at stuff anyway. At times we do spend more than our budget. Plus who knows what “deal” you may find. I wish you all the best of luck on this journey!

The firmwares are now coming out for a whole number of Sony players. There are aftermarket firmwares for the Sony DAPs which you can see if you click on the link I included in my post.

Someone yesterday had a boot-loop issue with his Sony A55 but was able to fix it up again. Literally hundreds of people have been using the new firmwares for the last couple months with zero issues. It really was scary at first in fact we joked that we could in essence “brick” our players yet of course nothing like that has happened and many of us have changed our firmwares 50 times or more; with everyone using non-Sony stock firmware.

So even if you didn’t end up getting a 1A check and see which Sony DAPs have a MrWalkman firmware for them. It’s a big deal! I personally have only heard the firmwares with the 1A/1Z but have read numerous poems people have written after the change.

We started with the 1A/1Z+ which was a pretty big departure in sound from what was offered by other enthusiast firmware. Then there was a model changer which allowed the 1A owner to get more of the sound of a 1Z. Most of the prior firmware was based on actual Sony Walkman 3.02 firmware yet it was an enhancement. You could hear the base of where the improvements came from. Now with DMP-Z1 MK1 and DMP-Z1 MK2 MrWalkman is taking and emulating the 10K Sony DMP-Z1 desktop. Basically away from this name dropping it gives the players both more detail and more warmth and better imaging and soundstage. It changes everything. But typically I had issues at the start of finding the 1A too thin out of the box. So to find new firmware which did a 360 degree turn around in sound was cool.

You could check there are really many firmware editions.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-walkman-os-fw-mods-non-android.943661/page-52#post-15923063

 

[Kejusan]

I thought I may be showing you something that was over budget. But then I thought? I’m just going to write stuff anyway. Especially when I just heard about someone getting one for $500. My intentions were to just get you to take a look at stuff anyway. At times we do spend more than our budget. Plus who knows what “deal” you may find. I wish you all the best of luck on this journey!

The firmwares are now coming out for a whole number of Sony players. There are aftermarket firmwares for the Sony DAPs which you can see if you click on the link I included in my post.

Someone yesterday had a boot-loop issue with his Sony A55 but was able to fix it up again. Literally hundreds of people have been using the new firmwares for the last couple months with zero issues. It really was scary at first in fact we joked that we could in essence “brick” our players yet of course nothing like that has happened and many of us have changed our firmwares 50 times or more; with everyone using non-Sony stock firmware.

So even if you didn’t end up getting a 1A check and see which Sony DAPs have a MrWalkman firmware for them. It’s a big deal! I personally have only heard the firmwares with the 1A/1Z but have read numerous poems people have written after the change.

We started with the 1A/1Z+ which was a pretty big departure in sound from what was offered by other enthusiast firmware. Then there was a model changer which allowed the 1A owner to get more of the sound of a 1Z. Most of the prior firmware was based on actual Sony Walkman 3.02 firmware yet it was an enhancement. You could hear the base of where the improvements came from. Now with DMP-Z1 MK1 and DMP-Z1 MK2 MrWalkman is taking and emulating the 10K Sony DMP-Z1 desktop. Basically away from this name dropping it gives the players both more detail and more warmth and better imaging and soundstage. It changes everything. But typically I had issues at the start of finding the 1A too thin out of the box. So to find new firmware which did a 360 degree turn around in sound was cool.



You could check there are really many firmware editions.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-walkman-os-fw-mods-non-android.943661/page-52#post-15923063

Will definitely check them out! Things keep on getting more interesting, although my budget seems unlikely to stretch up till that high, this journey itself is rewarding.

 

[ehjie]

Based on my ongoing research, DX200 seems to fit in my criteria except for the portability. It looks like a tank which speaks for its built quality but the size seems not too pocketable. I live in the part of the world where the sun shines almost everyday thus no jackets on most days that could fit in bulky items. And it seems like it's not easy to find the module amp where I live.

I'm not near from where i purchased my ibassos (3,550 miles). They were purchased online & on separate times.
Like u, i did extensive research, including researches outside the confines of this fine place. Tracked down through the years ibasso's record for reliability. (4) years of browsing was enough on record concerning that...

 

[ehjie]

Will definitely check them out! Things keep on getting more interesting, although my budget seems unlikely to stretch up till that high, this journey itself is rewarding.

It is indeed...


(4) years will look like that. That's just recent.
Not recounting my very early years in portables up to home hi-fi...

 

[Kejusan]

It is indeed...


(4) years will look like that. That's just recent.
Not recounting my very early years in portables up to home hi-fi...

What DAP is that beside the dx160? With that many DAPs, you're not looking to selling some of it, the wm1a maybe?