[Wilson M.]

I hope the subject line was a good enough hook.

I apologise for the long post but I want to be clear.

I've searched and read for the last 5 days and I'm at wit's end.

I need a headphone system. The absolute limit is $2,300 US.

I currently own HD600s (6-7 years old) and an old HeadRoom Supreme but that combination doesn't cut it with my sources (VPI Aries 2 and Meridian 507).

I recently evaluated the Stax 4040 system and the Sugden Headmaster with the HD600 and Equinox cable. Both were nice but neither bowled me over. The Stax was too ethereal with voice but no body. I appreciate what it can do but it just doesn't fit my musical tastes. The Sugden didn't have enough delination of instruments while the bass seemed blubbery and a bit woolly. Granted the Stax weren't great with the bass either but there was better definition.

Both systems seem to lack complex instrument tonality, texture and resonance. Percussion seemed to lack subtle detail. Brass didn't have that burnished metal quality and resonance. Anything with wood seemed to lack complex resonance. Both systems hinted at the complexity but did not deliver all of the goods.

Requirements:
1) I listen to everything so I need flexible with few caveats or conditions.
2) I'm not married to the HD600s. I would consider the RS-1s or the DT880s. AKG and I don't get along.
3) I prefer tubes but well-executed solid state is fine with me unless the tube amp is vastly superior.
4) Sound has priority over features.
5) I value neutrality, detail and musicality. I'm not a bass freak.
6) I prefer commercial (HeadRoom, ASL, Ray Samuels, HeadAmp, etc) for aesthetics.
7) Amps must be available new in the US and easy to obtain.
8) I have no interest in internally modifying an amp any time soon.

If I stay with the HD600s then I have 2 amps in mind: the HeadRoom Max (stepped attenuators) and the ASL Twin Head Mk II. I'm a bit leery of the ASL given people's experience with it. I would get a cable upgrade for the HD600s.

Otherwise, I need to budget $350-1050 for new headphones. The amps that seem to be gaining a lot of attention are the Emmeline HR-2 and the Gilmore V2-SE. Both are in the right price range (if I go with both sets of headphones) and seem to fill my requirements.

Am I getting a lot more by going with the Max or Twin Head compared to the HR-2 or Gilmore? Or is it a case of getting 5-10% for double the money?

I don't mind spending $2000 on an amp if it's one of the best amps (not including the insanely priced ones).

Have I missed any serious contender in the under $2,000 price limit given the above requirements?

Please give me a reasonable explanation for your suggestions and opinions.

Thanks.

 

[Zanth]

Well you certainly have done your research! VERY refreshing. Thanks

Well, from all that I have read and from my comparatively limited experience with the HD600's I can say they are capable of producing the type of sound you want.

If you want tubes...then going ASL Twin Head MKII or the Single Powered Supra would be your best bet, the latter be much less than the ASL amp...although the aesthetics may not be your bag...

For solid state amps, the Headamp V2 SE would do you very very well for you. Should be very neutral and dynamic. I wouldn't call the V2 I heard the most last definition in musical....but the SE may be? The Emmeline is getting high marks as well and is less than the max. Also don't overlook the Grace901.

As a biased RS-1 lover, I would of course recommend you take a serious listen and then search for an amp...maybe the EAR HP4 (if you can find it in the US for the UK price of 2200 US).


Good luck!

 

[MoLtoSoLo]

I like this title, and we are very good at helping people spending money.
I would suggest Grado HP1 headphone ( ~$900) / Single Power MPX3 amp (~ $550)/ NOS VT231s (~$180)/ Any good aftermarket powercord ($50). The total will be a lot lower than $2300, and it will be one of the best system you can get.
HP1 is hard to find, and your HD600 will do just fine.

 

[braillediver]

Emmeline

Grado RS-1's with vwaps modified Senn pads

Cardas cable for your HD600's

Add a couple of bucks for interconnects and a power cord and you'd have a really fine setup for Rock, Classical and anything in between.

Good luck

Mitch

 

[sacd lover]

I vote for sacdmods 222es approximately $750, good interconnect of your choice $150, gilmore v2 se $850, signalcable power cord x2 $150 for both, grado sr-225 $150 or beyer dt800 $250 = $2050-2150 total. I would then add a ps audio standard ultimate outlet that you can pick up for $200 or so used. If you go with a 225 and have good interconnects or power cords already I would add a newer high current ps audio ultimate for $325 (new/ shipped if you look around). Combine these and you have excellent sound/ synergy and you can easily integrate them into a fine amp/ speaker system later because the v2 se is a fantastic preamp. I am extermely pleased with this exact system.

 

[Gopher]

Quote:

Originally posted by MoLtoSoLo I like this title, and we are very good at helping people spending money. I would suggest Grado HP1 headphone ( ~$900) / Single Power MPX3 amp (~ $550)/ NOS VT231s (~$180)/ Any good aftermarket powercord ($50). The total will be a lot lower than $2300, and it will be one of the best system you can get. HP1 is hard to find, and your HD600 will do just fine.

I built this exact system last week and give it my highest recommendations! The single power amp is awesome, and quite a steal (especially at what I paid for it

). I listened to it breifly with RS-1s as well, and though I felt the imaging/layering left some to be desired by direct comparision, it was a very nice and engaging mix.

Being you have the bux to spend however, you might want to look into one of the higher end single power amps. I have not heard the Supra or SDS, but based on what I have read others say, I am guessing it would be a very sound investment.

One more input I have, email Justin at headamp about the upcomming Gilmore Primere. From what I understand he's taking orders now, and though it won't be cheap, I'm sure (spoken as a v1 DACTed and v2 owner), it will be awesome.

Is it a requirement that you buy new? Those bux will go a looong way in the used market... (to consider HP-1000s you'd be hard pressed to find NIB/NOS).

Have fun spending! At this pricepoint, I don't think there are too many outright 'bad' choices as far as headphone amplification goes.

 

[braillediver]

I see your in Redmond WA?

That being the case you might consider contacting Gary Dahl, he’s in Silverdale. He and Lynn Olsen have an amplifier called the Espressivo. It will eat your $2000 if not more. A friend (tone here on Head-Fi) heard it and said it was the best headphone amplifier he ever heard. He considered the EAR HP4 the best until he heard Gary’s amp.

http://www.aloha-audio.com/gary/index.html

Quickly checking you listed sources this would be in the same ballpark. It might be something to consider. Gary is a great guy to deal with.


Mitch

 

[smokey]

Wilson M,

Let me go retro a little, and somewhat offbeat. The RKV Mk II was the flavor of the month a while ago, and those that owned it thought quite highly of it. Meier Audio, a Head-Fi sponsor, can provide info, as can many threads. Also, those that used that amplifier seemed to like the Sony 3000 with it. Total price, with the necessary impedencer would be about $1,500.

Another thought would be the Max. I have the Blockhead, and as the big brother to the Max, I'd think you could be happy with this amp, the HD600, and upgraded cables.

Suggestions out in left field would be the HD600, a modified cable, and any number of high end pre-amplifiers, or integrated amplifiers. Moth Audio, Cary, VTL, Melos, and PS Audio all make/made wonderful products. (I'm kinda' partial to the Cary stuff myself.)

Any way with $2,000 you've got quite a selection to look over. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

 

[sacd lover]

Whoops I missed your listed sources.

I still would go with the v2 se $850, plus now a grado rs-1 $550 ebay, a good power cord for the se (probably a ps audio $199) and a ps audio ultimate outlet $300-325, assuming you dont have any power conditioning for the headamp. This is still well under your $2300 price maximum. I also forgot to mention the v2 se has a dact stepped attenuator in addition to its many other features .

 

[Wilson M.]

You can tell that I will fit in here very well because I'm currently unemployed and I'm spending $2000 on a headphone system.

I have this "being the first owner" fetish.

I'm covered on sources, interconnects, power cords and power conditioning. (You REALLY don't want to know what I have.)

My home system is quite nice and overachieves for its price so any headphone system has big shoes to fill. Listening to the Stax and Sugden/HD600, I kind of went: Huh. Is that it?

The concerns over the Twin Head and Divergent's less than stellar reputation will probably exclude it in the end.

The Single Power looks... umm... distinctive. Unless it's God's gift to headphone lovers, a certain someone would shoot me before letting me bring that thing inside.

The RKV II looks interesting but I'm too lazy to deal with buying things outside of the US and I am hoping to support a US manufacturer.

The HeadRoom Max was essentially the "if all else fails then I can't go too wrong getting this one."

I like the size of the HR-2 and the ability to voice it with different op-amps. It's the most tempting since it sort of satisfies the tube roller in me.

I already have a top class pre-amp (along with everything else) so I probably wouldn't use the extras with the Gilmore.

I forgot about the Grace. Hmm.

The US retail for the EAR HP4 is stupid.

I like the RS-1. I listened to them when it first came out but could not justify the price tag at the time. HP-1s would be nice but I won't be selfish.

Ultimately, I don't want to overlook amps like the V2, HR-2, MPX3, etc if they come close to performing like products at double the money. At least then I have the choice to either go for the absolute best sound quality for my budget or step it down knowing that I'm not losing out too much and pick up headphones.

Inside, I really want to split the money between amp and headphones. I have never really been excited about the HD600's distance and darkness. I know a cable upgrade will help (and I heard quite an improvement with the Equinox cable) but it still retains a bit of an uninvolving detachment. It would be nice to get the RS-1s just for those times I want more in-your-face excitement.

What do people think of the DT880s? I have yet to hear them and I get mixed signals from people who have.

Yes, I'm in Redmond. I'll try to contact Gary and get some info.

Boy, it's so much easier buying regular audio components.

 

[Nightfall]

There are a lot of very good suggestions above. Personally, I think the biggest bang for these bucks might be the Grado RS-1 (available new for $599.95 presently), the Singlepower Supra (still available for under $1000.00 to Head-Fi members, I believe). Throw in $500.00 for good interconnects of your choice, and I suspect you have, dollar for dollar, about the best you could do.


JC

 

[Gopher]

I don't know about "gods gift to headphone lovers" but the MPX3 is certainly a great unit. Mikhail informed me that he had some price quotes from a few metal shops for his new enclosures--if asthetics are what your worried about, why don't you contact him about a more visually pleasing protoype. From what he informed me the new chasis' will be on the costly side, but I'd better leave it for him to relay to you in private--should you choose to inquire.

As for the headphones--who said you can't have two pairs? I think most head-fiers who can afford to own a couple pairs of cans do. I think the RS-1s and HD600s would be a nice compliment. Also, before you sell off your HD600s, keep in mind that there seem to be atleast 2 or 3 very promising new aftermarket cables comming out in the next few weeks.

Out of curiostiy, why are AKGs out of the question? Now that I've got a main rig I can live with I'm looking into a K-1000s based secondary rig. Is it solely based on asthetics, because despite their akward appearance they really are exceptional phones.

 

[Wilson M.]

I'll do my due diligence and ask Mikhail for some information.

I'm sorry if it sounded like I only wanted one pair of headphones. Ideally, I would like to get the RS-1s to supplement the HD600s (for those times I want up-close-and-personal). I liked what I heard from the Equinox cable with the HD600s and if everyone is accurate with the Cardas, it will probably be most to my liking.

I wouldn't mind getting the DT880 as well if people think it's a worthwhile listen.

I've never had good experiences with older AKG products. I did listen to the 501s a while back and they were good for the money but not top of the class. I tried the K1000, albeit briefly, and it just doesn't want to fit my head and it invariably gave me headaches from the temple pressure. I'll probably try them again in the future. One step at a time.

 

[HappymaN]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wilson M. I've never had good experiences with older AKG products. I did listen to the 501s a while back and they were good for the money but not top of the class. I tried the K1000, albeit briefly, and it just doesn't want to fit my head and it invariably gave me headaches from the temple pressure. I'll probably try them again in the future. One step at a time.

Damn it, I read the whole thread, and the whole time, was thinking, K1000's, K1000's, K1000's! Then I read this.

Oh well. Although if you already have a top of the line integrated amplifier for your current system, the AKG K1000's would be a logical choice.

 

[Wilson M.]

I thought about trying K1000s again for a very long time before I started looking into everything else and posting this thread. I've always had very nice tube pre-amps/amps so driving them would not have been a problem and that would save me a lot of money. I'm currently running an Audible Illusions Modulus 3A pre-amp and a Cary CAD-280 SA-R (V12R) power amp.

However, I'm concerned that putting a strange load like that on an amp designed for speaker loads is not the healthiest thing for the amp. The Modulus is a fairly high gain pre-amp and Cary has a good deal of power so volume adjustment might be difficult.

But, I'm still looking at all of my options and who knows what I'll end up with.

One question about the K1000s. How is it for lying down (say on a couch or bed)? It was a long time ago when I tried them and I'm drawing a blank as to how well they would stay on the head when reclined. That was a small item on my wish list.