help me choose head/dac/amp combo around hd650/k701 range

[thused]

Hi All,

I've been lurking in these forums for a while now and am feeling somewhat lost for what to pick for my first high end headphone setup. So I'll explain a bit of background first.

I have a MacBook Pro which i use at home and at work, and this will be my primary source of music with headphones. The digital option via usb/firewire/optical makes a DAC compulsory. I also have a cambridge audio Azur 640 series amp and cd player connected to a pair of 12L quad bookshelfs and a Quad Lite sub in the loungeroom. Decent low-end gear I think. And while I'll occasionally use these headphones with that equipment, still, the primary use will be via the MacBook pro at home in my study and maybe at work.

At work i'm currently using HD-280 Pros which I bought for their flat response reputation, closed ( so I can up the volume without annoying others ), and cheapish price.

I'm pretty flexible on price. Clearly my headphone price range is around the 300-350 mark. Any dac/amp would need to match that investment, without going too low or too high.

My musical taste varies quite widely, from jazz, classical, small-part accapella, to electronic psytrance and the occasional bit of rock. While i'm sure multiple headphones would suit that best I'm looking for an all-rounder with a focus to the vocals and small-number instrumental in the jazz genre.

So these are the devices I"ve considered so far, but am really looking for recommendations to get the best bang for buck and maybe avoiding the mass-marketed hype possibly surrounding some of the gear.

Headphones: HD650 or K701
DAC/AMP (combined):
HeadRoom desktop amp: home module home dac
Pico portable dac
Apogee Duet

But i'm not particularly attached to any of it. I've read that the two headphones are particularly sensitive to amp choice so I wonder if these are suitable. Also, I wonder if a separate DAC / AMP would be advisable. But I'm lost there on what to pick.

The only other final point is I'm in australia. So all suggestions welcome, but small providers where I can't get access will probably have to be overlooked.

edit: adjusted price, i was thinking australian dollars

 

[thused]

no thoughts?

 

[illkemist]

Well, as you can see by my signature, I have a MBP. I've fed the digital bits to a fair number of devices. I have settled on a DAC1 Pre for practical reasons. However, having listened to some of the products listed above, I can definitely offer some thoughts. Since you're already listening to Sennheisers, you definitely should listen to the 650s, but you should also listen to the AKGs as well. There is not substitute for the feedback you get from your own ears.

The problem is that you have such varied musical tastes, that it's kind of hard to lock on to one one piece of hardware. Is the combination of DAC and AMP required or strongly desired in your setup? If so, then I think the HeadRoom products are a great idea. I have listened to their Micro line and the Desktop Amp (sans DAC). I generally enjoyed both setups, but the Micros can be bettered by traditional desktop products of similar price. And the Desktop is slightly overpriced once everything is added up.

As for portables, I've got a Predator right now and a Pico being delivered today. There is no substitute for bigger dedicated amps. As much as I like the Predator (a lot), it does not compare to my old Slee Solo desktop amp. My best advice to you is to take advantage of HeadRoom's return policy and to go to a Head-Fi meet. If you cannot make it to one, try to organize your own with people in your area. I have spent a lot of money bouncing from one product to the next because I didn't have access to the equipment that I wanted to listen to.

 

[thused]

Quote:

Originally Posted by illkemist /img/forum/go_quote.gif . Since you're already listening to Sennheisers, you definitely should listen to the 650s, but you should also listen to the AKGs as well. There is not substitute for the feedback you get from your own ears.

Fair point. I'll try to head to a store and listen to both. I guess comfort is important too. The 280s can feel a bit heavy after a while, but that's the price I pay to block out the busy noise of the office!

Quote:

The problem is that you have such varied musical tastes, that it's kind of hard to lock on to one one piece of hardware.

True. Though, where the sound quality is most important to me is small-number instrumental and vocal, mainly in jazz. Hearing the fingers slide along a double-bass and the foot-pedal on a drum make all the difference to me. I like to be able to hear every detail, and as such big band or orchestral just doesn't grab me. If I want that experience I go see it live and feel it as well as hear it!

Quote:

Is the combination of DAC and AMP required or strongly desired in your setup?

Not at all! Sure there is convenience there. But if there is much better sound to be had for a price bracket I'd gladly separate the units. If it came to that, I'd probably get a pico portable dac for when i want to move around and keep the separate units in my study. Heck, I'd even consider a tube amp if the sound really is that unique.

Would you recommend getting separate units?

Quote:

If so, then I think the HeadRoom products are a great idea. I have listened to their Micro line and the Desktop Amp (sans DAC). I generally enjoyed both setups, but the Micros can be bettered by traditional desktop products of similar price. And the Desktop is slightly overpriced once everything is added up.

Yeah. I really like the reviews and the specs and their obvious passion, but I just wonder if the same quality can be had by sacrificing a little convenience. I"m even contemplating going balanced if the difference is what everyone says it is. Again, I'd need to hear this for myself before making that significant jump in investment.

Quote:

As for portables, I've got a Predator right now and a Pico being delivered today. There is no substitute for bigger dedicated amps. As much as I like the Predator (a lot), it does not compare to my old Slee Solo desktop amp. My best advice to you is to take advantage of HeadRoom's return policy and to go to a Head-Fi meet. If you cannot make it to one, try to organize your own with people in your area. I have spent a lot of money bouncing from one product to the next because I didn't have access to the equipment that I wanted to listen to.

That's what i'm hoping to avoid. I can easily see myself fueling the second hand market here by succumbing to the hype and prose of copy authors

There's an audio club in melbourne having a meet tomorrow. I"ll go along and see what the crowd is like.

 

[thused]

Ahh, visit to the stores are dangerous things

I've now purchased some Quad 9L speakers for my desk.
To power them I'm getting a manufacturer direct version of this amp:

Quest For Sound - High End Audio

Which is a 15W x2 tube speaker/headphone amp. Perfect for my headphones ( when I decide on which ones to get ) and to hear them drive the small quad speakers was heaven. It's like hearing my loungeroom on my desktop!

Arrives in 3 days.

So now, I just need a dac to sit between the integrated tube amp and my mac book pro. I would also like a portable one to take to work, so wonder if I can make do with the portable one for a while and then use that experience to decide on a permanent solution for the home setup.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/min...-lyrix-306883/

explores 4 dacs. I like the pico for its size, but I don't like the waiting list. The predator wins on quality. But the headstage lyrix has a crossfeed switch which, while i appreciate the lack of one providing a cleaner signal, having the option with headphones to reduce the separation could be a nice to have.

So in a portable i need amp power to drive the headpones. But in an eventual permanent solution I merely need an external DAC...

not quite suitable anymore for the headphone category, but thoughts anyway?

 

[gz76]

Put your name down for the next Melbourne meet (see my sig). You're always welcome to listen to any of my gear anytime if it helps inform you, however some of it may be outside the budget you're aiming for. I use the Stello gear with my MBP, and it drives the 650s nicely, as well as my Quads.

Which audio club is meeting today? I'd love to find some more local guys to talk hi-fi with. Maybe send me a PM or something? Thanks.

 

[thused]

Melbourne Audio Club, Inc. Homepage

the melbourne audio club. meet tonight at 8pm here:

The Whitehorse Centre - Functions and Events

in the Waratah room. I'm lacking transport at the moment so am not sure if I can make it tonight since i work in north melbourne. But will try.

 

[gz76]

Damn, I can't make it out there tonight as I don't have my car at the moment either.

 

[Currawong]

G'day to another Aussie and another Mac users. I myself am living in Japan at the moment though.

I took a chance after a lot of reading on the gear I chose and don't think I've done badly so far. I was lucky to find a dedicated headphone shop in Tokyo I could try a lot of cans in, however. The unfortunate thing is that as soon you start pondering good cans, you need to ponder a good amp, and good source (and even good cables or HP recabling) so the cost doubles or triples. I think along with listening to as much gear as possible, plan ahead how far you're willing to go down the track buying gear.

 

[Hopstretch]

Insert obligatory Apogee Duet recommendation here.

 

[sgprater]

AKG K701s go very nicely with tube amps, if you're still considering which pair of headphones to buy. My musical tastes are very similar to yours; I much prefer the AKG K701s for intimate classical music and vocals (the HD 650s, the little I've listened to them, seem to be better suited for orchestral works, for that symphony hall feeling).

I have both the Headroom MicroDAC and a Bel Canto DAC2; I use the Bel Canto between my computer and my tube amp. Which is better? I dunno, they're both excellent, I can't really hear that much of a difference between the two (which probably says more about me, my ears, and my upstream/downstream setup, than it does about their relative merits). My own limited experience tells me that if you have a good amp and a good set of headphones, the difference between one midrange DAC and another is pretty much a wash.

 

[sgprater]

Oh, and by the way, just in case you thought you were almost done... you should really consider rolling your tubes. The difference good NOS tubes (new old stock, i.e., tubes manufactured before the onset of the transistor, but never used) can make is amazing -- it can turn your good amp into something sublime.

 

[thused]

Hm ok, i'll certainly source some 701's and give them a try. They are much cheaper here. For AUD$300 ( 0.95 aud in 1 usd ) i can get 701s, but for hd640 it's 600! But i'm really after that great sound and my budget is at the top end of the two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgprater /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh, and by the way, just in case you thought you were almost done... you should really consider rolling your tubes. The difference good NOS tubes (new old stock, i.e., tubes manufactured before the onset of the transistor, but never used) can make is amazing -- it can turn your good amp into something sublime.

Oh yeah, i've read a bunch of intros to tubes and know the slippery slope into which I've gotten myself. However, I'll enjoy the sound of the stock cables and tubes for a while and then once i'm used to the improvement I"ll start experimenting there. Although I did splurge on a quality interconnect for the to-be-dac and some nice speaker cable.

 

[thused]

Walking past a new employee here i noticed a pair of AKG k271 studio's on his desk. So i got talking and it turns out he has both the 650s and 701s, *and* a headroom with dac option!

Talk about lucky. So I get to sample 3 things I'm considering all at once. These 271s sound pretty nice even merely plugged into my laptop out. A little hard to drive, but good enough. A fair bit cleaner than my 280s. Can't wait until monday now!

 

[thused]

Well he didn't have the 701s, but I did get to compare the 650s against the 271s using a headroom portable dac/amp. The 650s certainly sounded very nice, but nit picking through various jazz, vocal and electronic music I found I could pick out more detail with the 271s. They were more pronounced in the mids and highs and, to my ears anyway, served that music style better and gave a better balance to the various instruments. Probably overall the 650s felt more comfortable and presented an overall more pleasing sound, but when carefully listening for individual details the 271s stepped up. They did fail on presenting violins and tenor saxes though. If only that detail were supplied via the 650s.

Comparing studio 271s with the 650s wasn't exactly fair so I'm again on the hunt for a pair of 701s to try.

In the mean time, the tube amp with the quads is a bloody awesome desktop setup. I barely left my desk on the weekend and fed music through them non-stop. It's quite an experience to have such a crisp soundstage while working on my desktop computer!