Help making the right choice please

[cyberdud66]

Hello everyone.

I have just registered here and I must say I have found the forums extremely informative.

I would like some help if possible please. I have been a Stax user for several years now and at Christmas I received a brand new set of Stax SR-001 Mk2 from my lovely wife. The sound is absoulutely stunning, with detail and clarity close to my full blown 3030 system. I have never heard an MP3 sound this way before! However, I just cannot get along with the in-ear design. I find it quite uncomfortabe but have come to quite enjoy listening to music this way from my Cowon D2 whilst on work breaks etc.. So, I decided very recently to splash out on a set of Ultrasone 2500 S cans after reading very good reviews. Disappointed is an understatement! The treble, particularly cymbals, sound awful and almost hurt at times! There is nothing like as much detail and the bass is woolly. In comparison to the Stax they sound like a £5 set of give-aways. So, I would like any advice as to whether there is anything out there that will come close to the Stax sound that is not an in-ear design. I don't mind paying if they sound right but don't want to make another expensive mistake. Trying different sets is difficult for me as where I live we only have one hi-fi dealer. I am considering trying Grado but would appreciate any advice first.

Many thanks from a newbie on the forum

 

[Rednamalas1]

methinks you need a stax home rig

I guess you're looking for neutrality and details?

 

[cyberdud66]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes my main setup is the Stax 3030 system with a Musical Fideity A3 source and Nordost Red Dawn cables. I do intend to upgrade eventually but am happy with this setup for now. I am really surprised, however, how close to this the little SR-001 Mk2s sound - and from a Cowon D2 and MP3s! I am looking for something a little more portable than the rig you suggest. I think I would get a few strange looks from my work colleagues if I set that up in my break!

Are Grados a closer sound to the Stax, or have I just been spoiled from the off?

Thanks again for any advice.

 

[TSi]

if you have used stax... what u need to continue to do is go UPWARDS in price, not downwards

 

[cyberdud66]

Thanks TSI so what would you suggest that can be used as semi-portable and not needing mains supply to drive an energiser? I really love the SR-001 Mk2s but I cannot tolerate them inside my ears - I find it very uncomfortable.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberdud66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello everyone. I have just registered here and I must say I have found the forums extremely informative. I would like some help if possible please. I have been a Stax user for several years now and at Christmas I received a brand new set of Stax SR-001 Mk2 from my lovely wife. The sound is absoulutely stunning, with detail and clarity close to my full blown 3030 system. I have never heard an MP3 sound this way before! However, I just cannot get along with the in-ear design. I find it quite uncomfortabe but have come to quite enjoy listening to music this way from my Cowon D2 whilst on work breaks etc.. So, I decided very recently to splash out on a set of Ultrasone 2500 S cans after reading very good reviews. Disappointed is an understatement! The treble, particularly cymbals, sound awful and almost hurt at times! There is nothing like as much detail and the bass is woolly. In comparison to the Stax they sound like a £5 set of give-aways. So, I would like any advice as to whether there is anything out there that will come close to the Stax sound that is not an in-ear design. I don't mind paying if they sound right but don't want to make another expensive mistake. Trying different sets is difficult for me as where I live we only have one hi-fi dealer. I am considering trying Grado but would appreciate any advice first. Many thanks from a newbie on the forum

My 2500 sound NOTHING like what you just described, not when they were new, and not with 500 hours on them now. How do you know they aren't defective?

 

[cyberdud66]

I hadn't considered them being faulty to be honest. They came boxed and sealed and very well protected from a major UK outlet. How could I determine whether or not they are defective without access to another set? There is no distortion its just that the high end is extremely harsh and the bass woolly as I said in comparison to the Stax SR-001 Mk2s. The Stax are amazing sound for the price and are so revealing. Are these Ultrasone cans more fussy about source equipment? After all it is only a Cowon D2 playing MP3s. But if the Stax can sound this way surely the Ultrasones shouldn't sound this much worse!?

Thanks again for the comments

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberdud66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I hadn't considered them being faulty to be honest. They came boxed and sealed and very well protected from a major UK outlet. How could I determine whether or not they are defective without access to another set? There is no distortion its just that the high end is extremely harsh and the bass woolly as I said in comparison to the Stax SR-001 Mk2s. The Stax are amazing sound for the price and are so revealing. Are these Ultrasone cans more fussy about source equipment? After all it is only a Cowon D2 playing MP3s. But if the Stax can sound this way surely the Ultrasones shouldn't sound this much worse!? Thanks again for the comments

I don't find them to be very finicky about the source or amp.

When I got my PL2500, the bass was a little overblown, maybe less bass control than desirable, but not wooly or fuzzy ever. About 150 hours of playing music on them had the bass tighter and better controlled, and not too much bass anymore.

Also, when I first got them they were just a little bright, but not as bright as the Grado SR-325i and certainly not painful or as bright as the HFI-780. Putting about 300 hours on the 2500 really smoothed out the highs.

By 400-450 hours they sounded like a Grado RS-1 with the soundstage of a Senn HD600. They don't seem to change much with play time after about 450 hours.

If you weren't in the UK, I'd send mine to you to compare to yours. In your case it would be easier if you just hook them up to music and run them for 10 straight days and then listen to them again. If that isn't good enough, run them another 10 straight days and that is gonna get them to sound as good as they ever will. If that doesn't improve them, I don't know what will.

 

[cyberdud66]

Thanks HeadphoneAddict - I will take your advice and let them play away for a week or two. Your description of the initial sound seems similar to what I am experiencing but nothing like as pronounced so maybe its my ears that are so used to the Stax sound that these initial characteristics are exaggerated to me. I have them hooked up already and will let you know how things go. Thanks again for the advice - much appreciated

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

I'm not very experienced with the 2500, but heard some other Proline Ultrasones and IMHO they tend to sound as the OP described, specially acounting on how neutral, balanced and naturally detailed sound the Stax phones.

I agree with most other posters, if you love the SR-001 and 3030 that much, you'd need to look for HPs sounding with that level of accuracy and balance, with nicely damped bass and extended and very clear highs. I don't think Grados (but the GS1000 at low listening levels maybe)would sound not even acceptable to your ears.

For portable use, if you're looking for something that sounds with some similarities to electrostatics, I'd try Etymotic ER4P, maybe recabled, or UE Triple.fi 10 in IEM style. Looking at over the head cans, I'm not very sure, very very few dynamic cans get close to the electrostatic character, and most of them are of the expensive non portable kind.

Rgrds

 

[cyberdud66]

Interesting comments Cool Torpedo. Makes me feel a little better in that I'm not the only one that finds them to sound this way, but I guess everyone's ears really are different

The models you suggest are in-ear designs and I don't think I would get along with them as that is my ONLY issue with the baby Stax SR-001 Mk2s. Also, I really need something that is relatively easy to drive for my Cowon D2, although this has a healthier output than most and drives the 2500s to beyond tolerable listening levels. I don't mind buying a headphone amp if required. I will burn these Ultrasones in and let you all know if they improve (to my ears). If not there could well be a set of mint Ultrasone 2500s up for grabs!

Thanks guys.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

For my experience with my own HFI-2200, I'd advice you to heavily burn-in your 2500 for at least 500 hours before deciding to sell them. Use music with tons of percussive low bass and play it at very loud levels. Pink-white noise does very little to properly burn-in those cans.
If you have a computer and you can use it to burn-in the cans, get a program named SigJenny and use its "Burst mode" feature to produce a 20Hz or 25Hz tone, just 3-4 cycles on "auto" mode, then you'll be feeding a very impulsive wave. Pump up the volume until you can hear the low frequency "clicks", but don't go too loud since you could damage the drivers. This worked in a few hours what using noise and music didn't do for my HFI-2200 in days.

I'm not an IEM fan myself either, but regarding tonal character those I mentioned share some similarities to the Stax. Obviously not the same thing at all. On over the head phones I'm not very sure which ones of the few ones I know/own would be similar to the Stax. Maybe the modded Denon AH-D5000, but these wouldn't let you use the DAP without some amp to get the goods. You'd need to try it, the Cowon has a beefy output and it's said to feed well low impedance phones. At 62R the D5000 could work, not sure. Also you might find the bass response too much coming from electrostats. IMHO it's right bass, taut, timbrically correct, quite fast, but the low frequencies show with much energy and weren't you used to that, you could dislike it. You'd probably also miss the highest highs above 12-14KHz.
Other candidates, were you so lucky to find them, would be the discontinued Sony CD-3000. Some say they're bright cans. Not in my experience using my ancillaries, to me they have the kind of ease and treble extension which I think you like from your Stax phones, but again you could find the bass rendition too present coming from electrostats. If you ended up thinking of the 2500 bass that it's quite right, then either the D5000 or CD3000 could be of your liking.

I'm sure there're other dynamic phones resembling to some extent the Stax sound, K701 are one of them, but these cannot be driven from any DAP, I'm quite sure of that, but again the Cowon could do it. We won't know until you tried it.

If you could, you lose nothing for trying some Grados with your Cowon. It could be that the RS-1 which have the softer highs, were of your liking, but coming from Stax, I seriously doubt it.
Also consider that using very resolving phones you're now hearing better the real capabilities of your DAP. I haven't listened to any Cowon, but I've been reading a lot about D2 and other units, whereas I considered to get a new DAP for me. It seems to be some agreement that they sound a bit "hot" on highs and most users tend to use the EQ and digital sound processing to have a righter tonal balance. Perhaps the 2500s are showing to you that feature too evidently for your taste.
By now let them burn-in and try to enjoy hehehe.

Rgrds

 

[boomana]

I had the identical impressions of the 2500s and that's after they were burned in for several hundred hours. If you are really bored one night, you can look through the massive "There's Something About Ultrasones" thread. You'll find you're not alone. I, too, was told my pair must be defective, which means there are a lot of defective pairs in head-fidom. I think it's far more likely that some people have different treble sensitivities, and it sounds like you're one. At any rate, I sold mine.

I also have the Stax SR-001 Mk2s so I know what you're after, but portable solutions are pretty limited if you're looking for something close to that sound. I'm going to recommend Ety ER4P with either a pico or a MiniBox E+, using the S cable with the pico (not needed with the MiniBox). If you need the dac, get the pico. The Etys are in-ears, but with a little trial and error, you should be able to find tips that are comfortable. I was using the Shure Olives until the baby blue flanges came out (for smaller ear canals), which ended up working best for me. You can also get custom molds for Etys if you want to go that route. The cable can be mircophonic, which is a drawback if you want to wear them while walking around, but some folks have had theirs recabled with success. If you can stand the idea of earbuds, I'd recommend Yuin PK1s. Though they are earbuds, they have remarkable sq when amped. I've liked mine with a few amps (some due to availability, I won't recommend) but the MiniBox E+ and the mini^3 are good options. You can also change out opamps in the MiniBox to change the presentation, though I personally like the stock 8610.

The full-size dynamic headphones I can think of to suit your request pretty much need a home amp to sound decent. You might want to try out SR60 or MS1s to get a taste of the Grado sound, and they do fairly with portable amps, but if you're used to Stax, you'll find the soundstage claustrophobic. The only portable headphones I've ever liked enough to keep, other than for working out, are the ATH-ESW9, but they do not sound at all like the baby Stax: are much warmer, with less clarity and soundstage, but better in other respects, and are completely engaging.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

EDIT: oh, and welcome to head-fi!

 

[cyberdud66]

Thanks again for all the comments. The 2500s are still playing away to themselves and I will give them another listen at the weekend. I will also try the SigJenny thanks Cool Torpedo.

Boomana - thanks for your very interseting and helpful post. I think you must be right about treble sensitivity and it looks like I'm going to have to look elsewhere. I am really after over the head cans if possible as I really do find the SR-001s uncomfortable and am afraid I will feel the same with other in-ear designs. Such a shame as I really love the baby Stax but just cannot handle them inside my ears. I think I'm going to have to pay a visit to a major city, go round a few dealers and try some sets out.

I will keep you all informed

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberdud66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks again for all the comments. The 2500s are still playing away to themselves and I will give them another listen at the weekend. I will also try the SigJenny thanks Cool Torpedo. Boomana - thanks for your very interseting and helpful post. I think you must be right about treble sensitivity and it looks like I'm going to have to look elsewhere. I am really after over the head cans if possible as I really do find the SR-001s uncomfortable and am afraid I will feel the same with other in-ear designs. Such a shame as I really love the baby Stax but just cannot handle them inside my ears. I think I'm going to have to pay a visit to a major city, go round a few dealers and try some sets out. I will keep you all informed

I've been listening to my PL2500 and Grados a little more over the past couple of days and my RS-1 are noticiceably ahead of my PL2500. My RS-1 have the APureSound V3 cable and are quicker and more detailed, and the cable opens up the soundstage with the additional transparency. But, we cant have you using $1000 usd headphones portable, just to get the speed closer an Electrostatic. Or can we

On another note, in addition to trying SR-60 or MS-1 (as suggested above) to see if the Grado sound can work for you, also give the Koss KSC35 a thought, as they are similar to an MS-1 but smaller and less expensive; or the Koss KSC75 which are similar but a little crisper sounding (but they need 100 hours burn-in to smooth out the highs).

I don't like universal fit in ear headphones much either, but you could get Livewires Custom fit monitors for about $300 shipped and they kinda feel like they disappear, instead of pushing against all the wrong places. These are my only portables that can beat my SR-001 for sound while being more comfortable. And people have reported they sound great unamped from the Cowan D2.