[FreshtoJEFF]

Always wanted to try a pair of Beyers so I picked up a pair of DT 770 80 PROs. Initial impressions were not "great" but I gave my ears a few days to adjust and I they did sound better.. still not "great".

Looking to venture in "open" headphones I grabbed the cheap SPH9500s and I don't get it.. they sound better than the 770s? Seems like there is more bass and they sound fuller bodied. Where I am a little confused is it the difference in sound stages, closed vs open? Or due to the 9500s having an impedance of 32 vs 80 therefore being easier to drive.

I know the DT 770 are considered "V" shaped but I feel the treble is rolled off and the sound is kind of "hollow" or a more recessed sound if that makes sense, while the 9500s are more "forward". As for the bass, the 770s being closed, and several people brag about the bass, shouldn't it outshine the bass in the 9500s.

Could it be I am not powering the 770s to it's potential? Currently on a MBP 2012, Micca Origen+.
Could my DT 770s be defective? Ear shapes just more compatible with the SPH9500s? Time for a new amp?

Looking for some input as I am thinking about another pair.. kind of caught the bug and I wanted to love the 770s based on comfort.

 

[GREQ]

Sounds like you've discovered that open back headphones just generally have objectively better sound quality than closed backs.
Nothing unusual about that.

 

[PurpleAngel]

The DT770 usually sound their best when connected to a powerful headphone amplifier (tube?) and even then I have headphones that sound better.
Check out the 32-Ohm Soundmagic HP151 closed headphones, they are like an improved DT770.

 

[FreshtoJEFF]

Sounds like you've discovered that open back headphones just generally have objectively better sound quality than closed backs.
Nothing unusual about that.

Maybe you are right. Time to invest in higher quality open backs.

The DT770 usually sound their best when connected to a powerful headphone amplifier (tube?) and even then I have headphones that sound better.
Check out the 32-Ohm Soundmagic HP151 closed headphones, they are like an improved DT770.

Thanks Purple. Probably not worth investing money into a tube amp for my current setup. Do you own the HP151s? Would you say the build quality over the 150s have improved and how's the comfort?

 

[PurpleAngel]

Maybe you are right. Time to invest in higher quality open backs.
Thanks Purple. Probably not worth investing money into a tube amp for my current setup. Do you own the HP151s? Would you say the build quality over the 150s have improved and how's the comfort?

I've never used the HP150, just the HP151, so can't really offer any first hand knowledge, comparing them.
To me, the HP151's comfort is fine for me.
For the audio quality and the price, I think the build quality is about as good as expected, which i personally do not have a issue with.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Looking to venture in "open" headphones I grabbed the cheap SPH9500s and I don't get it.. they sound better than the 770s? Seems like there is more bass and they sound fuller bodied. Where I am a little confused is it the difference in sound stages, closed vs open? Or due to the 9500s having an impedance of 32 vs 80 therefore being easier to drive.

I know the DT 770 are considered "V" shaped but I feel the treble is rolled off and the sound is kind of "hollow" or a more recessed sound if that makes sense, while the 9500s are more "forward". As for the bass, the 770s being closed, and several people brag about the bass, shouldn't it outshine the bass in the 9500s.

In terms of response the DT770 goes lower and louder at the low end. What you're getting partly has to do with power but not vis a vis the impedance as they're close enough, but the sensitivity of each of those headphones.

The SHP9500S is afaik ~102dB/1mW, the DT770 is at an otherwise high but comparatively low ~96dB/1mW. You need four times the power into the Beyer to match the output and that assumes the amp isn't hitting a roof or ceiling trying to deliver that power. Basically unless you've got an amp that has gobs of power chances are this will make for a huge difference in how well the amp does in driving the DT770 vs the higher efficiency SHP9500S.

The other factor there is the response. The DT770 might go lower, but the SHP9500S still has an upper bass bump that along with the markedly higher sensitivity and how much of the presence in the bass in that particular region makes for a much more noticeable bass presence, if at least lacking the deep tone that a properly powered HD650 (or for that matter a DT770) might otherwise get you, though that's not to say that it will always automatically match since the sensitivity will always be there assuming you're using the same amp.

Could it be I am not powering the 770s to it's potential? Currently on a MBP 2012, Micca Origen+.
Could my DT 770s be defective? Ear shapes just more compatible with the SPH9500s? Time for a new amp?

Looking for some input as I am thinking about another pair.. kind of caught the bug and I wanted to love the 770s based on comfort.

I'd try a new amp. Worst case scenario, the new amp should at least be one that does very well with practically any other headphone you might consider upgrading to.

Alternately...if you already like the sound of the SHP9500S anyway and just want more of the same but better, there's the Grado RS1e, and you might not necessarily need to upgrade the amp (and if you do there's no need to get a very powerful one).

 

[FreshtoJEFF]

In terms of response the DT770 goes lower and louder at the low end. What you're getting partly has to do with power but not vis a vis the impedance as they're close enough, but the sensitivity of each of those headphones.

The SHP9500S is afaik ~102dB/1mW, the DT770 is at an otherwise high but comparatively low ~96dB/1mW. You need four times the power into the Beyer to match the output and that assumes the amp isn't hitting a roof or ceiling trying to deliver that power. Basically unless you've got an amp that has gobs of power chances are this will make for a huge difference in how well the amp does in driving the DT770 vs the higher efficiency SHP9500S.

The other factor there is the response. The DT770 might go lower, but the SHP9500S still has an upper bass bump that along with the markedly higher sensitivity and how much of the presence in the bass in that particular region makes for a much more noticeable bass presence, if at least lacking the deep tone that a properly powered HD650 (or for that matter a DT770) might otherwise get you, though that's not to say that it will always automatically match since the sensitivity will always be there assuming you're using the same amp.





I'd try a new amp. Worst case scenario, the new amp should at least be one that does very well with practically any other headphone you might consider upgrading to.

Alternately...if you already like the sound of the SHP9500S anyway and just want more of the same but better, there's the Grado RS1e, and you might not necessarily need to upgrade the amp (and if you do there's no need to get a very powerful one).

First, appreciate all the information! I been using the Origen+ on high gain at around 40%-50% volume vs 90% on low. Typically is high gain for "higher" impedance cans? Or strictly no correlation and only factors volume levels. From what I read it introduces more "distortion". Anyway, is there an amp you'd suggest? I was under the impression the Origen+ was a solid dac/amp.

I've already looked into maybe a pair of X2's or trying out the 990s (If I struggle powering 80OHMS, the 250/600 are probably out of my league, but I really am curious what the 770s sound like when properly powered). Grado's have always been on my list but i've heard they have a distinctive sound. The funny thing is I've always had a paired of closed backs and I think open's really opened up a new avenue for me.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

First, appreciate all the information! I been using the Origen+ on high gain at around 40%-50% volume vs 90% on low. Typically is high gain for "higher" impedance cans? Or strictly no correlation and only factors volume levels.

Impedance can be a factor and so is sensitivity but the best way to think about it is like settings on transmissions. Like if you play GT or Forza there's that set of lines to visualize how they affect acceleration and top speed. The steeper the lines, the faster they accelerate, but you might not even hit the same top speed if all you mess with is the transmission and not adding power. In audio you can mess with how quickly it gets loud, but the gain doesn't change how loud you can go before you start clipping the signal, and you might just get distortion sooner.

As a very general rule, if you get a loud enough signal on low gain, use that, but that's not a guarantee that you have lower distortion and noise vs using high gain. In some cases, at least assuming there's enough power on tap to begin with, you might even get lower levels of each just by not cranking up the volume level as much, much less clip the signal.

I was under the impression the Origen+ was a solid dac/amp.

"Solid" is relative. It depends on what you use it with.

There are a lot of solid 1.8L Honda, Nissan, and Mazda engines, doesn't mean they'd work with a midsize sport sedan so that Acura, Infiniti, and Mazda can start competing with the Audi RS4.

Anyway, is there an amp you'd suggest?

If the Origen has a fixed voltage line output, you can try just the Schiit Magni3, or maybe the Asgard3. There's also the Meier Corda Rock.

If you need a DAC with those there's the Modi3. Asgard3 can be ordered with a DAC module.

I've already looked into maybe a pair of X2's...

Kind of close to the response of the DT770 (without the treble peaks, smoother plateau at the bass range), but halfway easy to drive between the DT770 and SHP9500S.

...or trying out the 990s (If I struggle powering 80OHMS, the 250/600 are probably out of my league...

It'll be a big problem because the improvement in sensitivity is negligible. Again, it's not just the impedance, but the problem in this case is that if the impedance increases, output power drops, but if sensitivity increases, depending on the amp increasing the impedance alone isn't always a problem. Like how an Asgard2 can supply the 512mW a 62ohm K702 needs and not have a problem supplying the 256mW a 300ohm HD600 needs (power figures will get both to the same volume level before the signal clips).

...but I really am curious what the 770s sound like when properly powered).

Likely not too different from what you're hearing now.

As much as you can get more low end, the top end is relatively loud, so it'll still have a tendency to skew the overall the sound. You'll get some improvement but depending on what you're listening to the overall effect is not necessarily that perceivable.

I mean, not that the DT770 is bad, but I'd use it for casual listening if I need isolation and can use an equalizer, like on my computer. If I don't need isolation and can't EQ the top end, I'd more likely just use a Grado.

Grado's have always been on my list but i've heard they have a distinctive sound. The funny thing is I've always had a paired of closed backs and I think open's really opened up a new avenue for me.

You have an SH9500S. That's kind of like having an SR80i or SR125i.

 

[FreshtoJEFF]

Impedance can be a factor and so is sensitivity but the best way to think about it is like settings on transmissions. Like if you play GT or Forza there's that set of lines to visualize how they affect acceleration and top speed. The steeper the lines, the faster they accelerate, but you might not even hit the same top speed if all you mess with is the transmission and not adding power. In audio you can mess with how quickly it gets loud, but the gain doesn't change how loud you can go before you start clipping the signal, and you might just get distortion sooner.

As a very general rule, if you get a loud enough signal on low gain, use that, but that's not a guarantee that you have lower distortion and noise vs using high gain. In some cases, at least assuming there's enough power on tap to begin with, you might even get lower levels of each just by not cranking up the volume level as much, much less clip the signal.




"Solid" is relative. It depends on what you use it with.

There are a lot of solid 1.8L Honda, Nissan, and Mazda engines, doesn't mean they'd work with a midsize sport sedan so that Acura, Infiniti, and Mazda can start competing with the Audi RS4.




If the Origen has a fixed voltage line output, you can try just the Schiit Magni3, or maybe the Asgard3. There's also the Meier Corda Rock.

If you need a DAC with those there's the Modi3. Asgard3 can be ordered with a DAC module.




Kind of close to the response of the DT770 (without the treble peaks, smoother plateau at the bass range), but halfway easy to drive between the DT770 and SHP9500S.




It'll be a big problem because the improvement in sensitivity is negligible. Again, it's not just the impedance, but the problem in this case is that if the impedance increases, output power drops, but if sensitivity increases, depending on the amp increasing the impedance alone isn't always a problem. Like how an Asgard2 can supply the 512mW a 62ohm K702 needs and not have a problem supplying the 256mW a 300ohm HD600 needs (power figures will get both to the same volume level before the signal clips).




Likely not too different from what you're hearing now.

As much as you can get more low end, the top end is relatively loud, so it'll still have a tendency to skew the overall the sound. You'll get some improvement but depending on what you're listening to the overall effect is not necessarily that perceivable.

I mean, not that the DT770 is bad, but I'd use it for casual listening if I need isolation and can use an equalizer, like on my computer. If I don't need isolation and can't EQ the top end, I'd more likely just use a Grado.




You have an SH9500S. That's kind of like having an SR80i or SR125i.

Protega the car analogies helped a lot, thanks for helping out a filipino brother!