Headroom Max or Cary 300SEI

Jun 21, 2004 at 10:10 AM Post #2 of 49
Both of those amps are great, though I have a soft spot for the 300 sei. The max is probably one of the best SS amps, I heard it for a brief momment, but i did spend alot more time on bozebuttons modded 300sei at the gradolabs meets. I'll just say this, if you could afford one, that quite possibly one of the finest amps you can ever have. The max is real nice, but it's not comparable because it isn't even a tube amp.

Alot of people I've read feel senns sound best with tubes, I disagree, but that is something to consider. I only heard the cary 300 sei with r10s, so someone else will have to fill in the blanks here.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 1:47 PM Post #3 of 49
From reading around here, both are near the top with the Senns....however you will get a whole lot more product with the cary. You will also be able to build a speaker system around it. (a good one too) Resale remains high on them also. You can also check into the Cary SLI80 which is cheaper than the 300. it also is a great int. amp with headphone amp in one.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 1:54 PM Post #4 of 49
bozebutton's Cary is one-of-a-kind in that it has been extensively modded to perform as a headphone amplifier only (speaker outputs no longer function). I believe he recently added a stepped attenuator (and possibly some other mods) as well. He uses a pair of Western Electric 300b tubes (read: $$$) in that amp, which also contribute to the wonderful sound a lot. All FYI, as comparisons to a stock 300sei may not directly apply.

That being said, boze's Cary is one of (if not my) favorite headphone amp. It seems to make everything sound great - including Senns
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.

There is a big difference in the cost of both of these amps (even in stock form). Differences between a tube amp and a SS one, both operationally & soundwise, are huge, also. Personal preferences will impact too much to make direct comparos.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 5:43 PM Post #5 of 49
I would not consider myself a fan of the 300SEI. I had an opportunity to hear it with both HD600's, and Grado RS-1's. It did not impress me as much as the Headroom Max w/ Stepped Attenuator. The Max seemed more accurate and involving, with fuller, punchier bass. The Max also possessed more extended treble. I feel the Max is the superior amplifier. It is also more reasonable priced. The 300SEI is more than double. As for the speaker driving portion of the 300SEI, it is only 11wpc. Hardly enough for the vast majority of speakers. Not only this but that 11wpc is not very high-fidelity. I would also note, that Stereophile's John Atkinson felt the 300SEI was not even a hi-fi product. In context:

"Footnote 4: I'm not going to be so charitable as RH. Given the fact that Stereophile would not recommend at all a loudspeaker that showed as unflat a response as the Cary when driving our standard simulated load, I don't regard this amplifier as a hi-fi product at all. It is actually a tone control, and an unpredictable one at that.—John Atkinson"
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 5:44 PM Post #6 of 49
The Max is vastly overpriced, and gets beat by SS amps costing far less, like my Gilmore V1 and Ray Samuels' entire line (yes even the portable amps). Didn't you used to own the Stealth? What happened there, you didn't like it? It is my favorite dynamic amp, I haven't heard the Cary, but going from the Stealth to the Max, is a major downgrade.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 5:47 PM Post #7 of 49
Iron:

That's complete crap. I have heard the Gilmore V1, and V2 neither of which compared to the Max or even the Cosmic. I would hazard to say that the V1 does not hold a candle to the Max. As for the Stealth, I have not had an extensive audition so I will not comment on it. I have however heard the HR-2, and felt it was bested by the Max.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 5:54 PM Post #8 of 49
I have owned both the 300sei and the Max and I think the Max was by far the better sounding of the two with more detail, tighter bass, less sibilance, etc. However, I have recently gotten an Aural Audio Audition which is MUCH better sounding than either one.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 6:30 PM Post #10 of 49
Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorNetwork
That's complete crap. I have heard the Gilmore V1, and V2 neither of which compared to the Max or even the Cosmic. I would hazard to say that the V1 does not hold a candle to the Max. As for the Stealth, I have not had an extensive audition so I will not comment on it. I have however heard the HR-2, and felt it was bested by the Max.


Did you read the comparison of the V1 and Max I did a few months ago? I even had some complete non-audiophiles (who I didn't tell anything about the amps beforehand) pick the V1 over the Max. This was with both amps having a volume pot. To us the V1 is faster and more detailed, the max sounded smoothed over. I could maybe see someone who wants a "chill out" sounding system pick the Max, but not at the price it sells for, unless they don't care about the money at all. The Stealth has a fullness and realism that no solid-state amp has in the mids, plus everything else that the best SS amps have. BTW the Grace 901 takes most everything the V1 does and makes it sound faster and tighter, and would kill the Max head-to-head.

If David wants the best of solid-state, IMO it's the Grace, which is cheaper than the Max still. (Unless you go balanced Gilmore reference, which kills the blockhead). The best of tubes that I've heard is the Stealth, or the Supra for the super-tubey sound.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 6:46 PM Post #12 of 49
Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorNetwork
Iron:

That's complete crap. I have heard the Gilmore V1, and V2 neither of which compared to the Max or even the Cosmic. I would hazard to say that the V1 does not hold a candle to the Max. As for the Stealth, I have not had an extensive audition so I will not comment on it. I have however heard the HR-2, and felt it was bested by the Max.


I have not owned the Max but have owned the newer model MOH with reference package and stepped Atten., close to the Max for sure. I have also owned the Gilmore V1. I enjoyed it more than the headroom amp. I can see how it could be compared to and even preferred over the Max.
Cost...used V1 225.00, New MOHR w/stepps 1447.00.
I have also read another recent review where the two amps were compared V1 and Max with stepps and the reviewer who owned the Max thought the V1 was VERY close in quality to the Max.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 7:18 PM Post #13 of 49
I've used both myself and decided to keep the Cary. It must be noted that the way the Cary sounds will be highly dependant on what tubes you use. I can't help but feel that a lot of the opinoins expressed herein were based on sub-optimal (e.g. stock) tube compliment. The Max has nothing on a Cary using Tung Sol round plates, Syl 6SN7W or 1952s, and AVVT 300Bs. I can't imagine anything more resolved or transparent then an accurate transducer (ala HD600) played through a good single ended triode. Of course, my opinion only.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 7:25 PM Post #14 of 49
Changing tubes did make a difference. Also, I have feeling that the current version of the 300 sei may sound better than mine, which I bought in 1994.
 
Jun 21, 2004 at 7:28 PM Post #15 of 49
Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorNetwork
I would not consider myself a fan of the 300SEI. I had an opportunity to hear it with both HD600's, and Grado RS-1's. It did not impress me as much as the Headroom Max w/ Stepped Attenuator. The Max seemed more accurate and involving, with fuller, punchier bass. The Max also possessed more extended treble. I feel the Max is the superior amplifier.


Do you recall what tubes were being used? As anyone who's used 6SN7s and 300Bs (or any tube for that matter) will tell you, it makes a world of difference. The 300SEI can easily sound worse then the Max. Then again, it can also easily sound vastly superior IMO.

Quote:

It is also more reasonable priced. The 300SEI is more than double. As for the speaker driving portion of the 300SEI, it is only 11wpc. Hardly enough for the vast majority of speakers. Not only this but that 11wpc is not very high-fidelity.


Pardon me, but could you qualify your statement "11wpc is not very high-fidelity"? I fail to follow your logic. Consensus tells me that 45-based tube gear are one of the best sounding amplifiers (they really are), and they're only 2wpc. 11wpc, while admittedly some-what limiting, will adequetely drive most speakers avaible so long as they have a beneign/flat impedance curve. You also have to keep in mind that 11wpc for SET means something entirely different then 11wpc for SS transitors.

Quote:

I would also note, that Stereophile's John Atkinson felt the 300SEI was not even a hi-fi product. In context:
"Footnote 4: I'm not going to be so charitable as RH. Given the fact that Stereophile would not recommend at all a loudspeaker that showed as unflat a response as the Cary when driving our standard simulated load, I don't regard this amplifier as a hi-fi product at all. It is actually a tone control, and an unpredictable one at that.—John Atkinson"


Tubes are all tone control, whether we admit it or not. So are speakers, sources, cables, and even SS amps. My criteria is based on if the equipment is emotionally and musically involving. Whether it is qualifiably high fidelity based on empirical analysis is a distant priority. YMMV.
 
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