Headphones vs Speakers -- an Inconvenient Truth
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  ​I have the same speakers.  I would not call them full range or bass heavy speakers in any medium sized or larger room.
 
But are you using them in a not-large bedroom like me?

 
These are nearfields, so I don't see why anyone would get them for a large room.
 
Since they only extend to 43 Hz or so, they're definitely not full-range, but this is only an issue for music with really deep bass.
 
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Robert Wortman

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But are you using them in a not-large bedroom like me?

 
These are nearfields, so I don't see why anyone would get them for a large room.
 
Since they only extend to 43 Hz or so, they're definitely not full-range, but this is only an issue for music with really deep bass.

​Yes, I am using them in a bedroom.  The post I disagreed with said that nearfield monitors were too bass heavy for use in living room.  That seems wrong to me.
 
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  ​Yes, I am using them in a bedroom.  The post I disagreed with said that nearfield monitors were too bass heavy for use in living room.  That seems wrong to me.
 
I see. I thought you were saying they're always bass-light or something. Anyway, as I understand it, the larger woofers generate a lot more bass.
 
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​Yes, I am using them in a bedroom.  The post I disagreed with said that nearfield monitors were too bass heavy for use in living room.  That seems wrong to me.
 
I would be more specific that it's those rear-ported speakers are the ones that tend to be bass heavy as you increase the distance between you and the speakers. Unless you have excellent bass traps in the wall, this effect is very apparent at least in my living room.
 
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  I would be more specific that it's those rear-ported speakers are the ones that tend to be bass heavy as you increase the distance between you and the speakers. Unless you have excellent bass traps in the wall, this effect is very apparent at least in my living room.
 
Yep, I noticed weird things going on when I moved them further away. I prefer them closer anyway.
 
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Based on my research, it would appear the ADAM A7X and ADAM Sub8 would be a good choice for when I upgrade my nearfield setup. Then perhaps I could stick with that until I can build a dedicated treated listening room for floorstanding speakers. I'm enjoying my current speakers so much I don't feel the urge to upgrade soon, at any rate.
 
Anyone else notice how much more enjoyable late night listening can be? I suspect it's due to biology more than anything else.
 
This jazz track sounds phenomenal.
 
Edit: Then again, the A77X is 3-way and some say it doesn't need a sub. ...But I came across this post that claims the S2X is the best nearfield speaker even when compared against more expensive ones. That caught my attention. At $5K for a pair, it's pretty pricey, though... The speaker hobby is definitely even more neurotic than the headphone one. O_O
 
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SP Wild

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Based on my research, it would appear the ADAM A7X and ADAM Sub8 would be a good choice for when I upgrade my nearfield setup. Then perhaps I could stick with that until I can build a dedicated treated listening room for floorstanding speakers. I'm enjoying my current speakers so much I don't feel the urge to upgrade soon, though.

Anyone else notice how much more enjoyable late night listening can be? I suspect it's due to biology more than anything else.

This jazz track sounds phenomenal.

Edit: Then again, the A77X is 3-way and some say it doesn't need a sub. ...And the S1X and S2X are better still, and getting pretty pricey. The speaker hobby is definitely even more neurotic than the headphone one. O_O

No...Just us audiophiles are a little neurotic. Pro audio guys pic a monitor that is a good tool for them to do the job and get on with it.

Me? No... I have to be an audiophile.... After deciding the A7Xs had better drivers than the Neumann KH120s, case closed...Sell the KH120s and move on...I shall.

I created a new playlist having tire of the old playlist...Bask in the gargantuan IMAX like soundstage of these A7Xs (a curved IMAX screen even....Like those gimmick curve TVs...The soundstage wraps around me! I never experience this 'soundstage' like this before...I come from headphones, and speakers before I knew about 'speaker placement'). I think to myself...I paid big bucks for these KH120s, they blew me away with their enormous soundstage and how panoramic their soundstage was, let's have a listen to them again, a farewell session. So I connect them up. Hit play.

Wait a minute. There are things in this new playlist I didn't hear in the A7Xs. The reverse happened with my old playlist...Started on the KH120 hear new things on the A7Xs.

There is so much more information in the midrange...Positional information. Voices definately come out more with a naturalism the A7Xs cannot match. The sound stage is a slightly smaller IMAX...Not curved, but it has more depth, A 3D IMAX? Either way, the soundstage sounds more realistic on the KH120 than the A7Xs, to me.

What about this whole A7X has better drivers than KH120s?

They do! I swear. I have been in this exact same situation before. When I owned the HD650 and bought the D7000. The Denon D7000 had better transients, a tighter bass...I was smitten with them, but it didn't take long for me to realise I still preferred the HD650.

And it was because of the midrange.

At this stage I know not which studio monitor I definately like more.



On a different note, I would like to conclude with my take on this whole headphones Vs speakers.

Going along with the IMAX theme. Imagine IMAX is the speaker...Does that make headphones A TV screen? IEMs are like tablets? That could work. We could see just as much detail on the tablet as on the IMAX, maybe more...Depending on how close we hold the tablet to our vision.

I personally would change it up a bit. When I put on headphones or IEMs..I can still enjoy music immensely. I get a full range sound, bass down to 20hz on an IEM costing 100 dollars, bass more accurate than a million dollar speakers in an untreated room. It's like watching good home cinema.

Speakers is the IMAX screen...In 3D...Better than we have now, we don't need 3D glasses. In fact putting on the 3D glasses on in this theoretical IMAX screen reduces it to 2D and the image shrinks to that of home cinema. That's what headphones are. You wear them, like glasses. IEMs are like Contacts...Maybe not, I don't wear glasses and therefore cannot comprehend sticking things in my eyeballs, only to find the image reduce further in size from home cinema!

Of course it's not so cut and dry. There is the issue of neighbours and late night listening.

It's kinda like watching the Spice Girls live in London... Ain't no one gotta know 'bout dat schiit!
 
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I enjoy listening on headphones, but I view them as a rather artificial, even "analytic", way of appreciating music. People talk about how having a wide soundstage is so important for classical music, but listening with HD800s is miles away from listening in a concert hall – it's so wide, it's like you're on the conductor's podium. Even if speakers don't easily achieve the same level of detail, the experience of having sound there in the room with you, not just in your head, is far more natural. 
 
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one can also benefit from headphones if they have room issue , listening to headphone takes the room out of the equation . I like both speakers and headphones .
 
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One o' muh buddies has been tryin' to turn me on to Ascend Acoustics.

He talks about how they're designed to have very high accuracy and implies they are just as or more accurate than some of the most expensive speakers even though they're under $2,000.

Does anyone have experience with them?

I am particularly curious how they compare to ADAM's flagship S series.

On that note, I contacted ADAM Audio and was basically informed that the S2V is replacing the S2X and is even better despite being $3,500 per pair instead of $5,000.

Links, for reference:
https://www.adam-audio.com/en/s-series/s2v/
https://www.adam-audio.com/en/s-series/
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2/srm2.html

Given the impressive things I've read about the S2X, the S2V is at the top of my list for potential endgame nearfields to use until I can build a much more serious floorstanding system. (Which will most likely not come to fruition until I move into a different house.)

I could always simply buy the Ascend speakers in addition to the ADAMs to find out for myself how they compare, but I thought I'd pop in here and see if anyone had insights.
 
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[1] Pro audio guys pic a monitor that is a good tool for them to do the job and get on with it.

[2] Me? No... I have to be an audiophile.... After deciding the A7Xs had better drivers than the Neumann KH120s, case closed...Sell the KH120s and move on...I shall.

[3] I created a new playlist having tire of the old playlist...Bask in the gargantuan IMAX like soundstage of these A7Xs ...
1. That's a lie! Pro audio guys do NOT just pic a monitor, they typically get a studio designer to design and build an entire system, which include the monitors, room construction/treatment to ensure optimal performance.

2. Yep, that sounds like an audiophile. Ignore the important factors which really affect the sonic performance of a system and make a decision based on some inconsequential detail.

3. You're joking right? You do realise an Imax system has six channels, including surround and ceiling channels? If you're saying that your stereo pair of A7Xs has a soundstage that extends all the way behind you and up to the ceiling then you've got some very serious phasing/positioning problems!! On another note, I put some special synthetic motor oil in my Ford Focus and now it drives exactly the same as a Ferrari, I swear! lol

I'm not knocking the A7Xs, they're good little nearfield monitors for the price but that's all they are, they're not made by angels to break the laws of physics and they're nothing even remotely like an Imax system, in either frequency response or soundstage.

Apologies if I've come across too harshly but I do get annoyed with some of the ridiculous claims audiophiles make about kit. More people would get more enjoyment and far fewer would get ripped-off without even realising it, if more audiophiles were more honest/realistic.

G
 
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Anyone here got any experience with the ATC Scm20 ASL MKII? I think for me to settle on nearfields I have to move above the KH120 and A7Xs.

I will probably sell the A7Xs and keep the KH120s.

These past couple of months, 3 sets of studio monitors have been evaluated. In this time frame the only head phone I used was my SE215s on my daily commute.

I have learned a lot. Like how the tweeter flavours the entire sound of the speakers, because virtually all transient events must pass via the tweeter... Including kick drums and bass guitar.

Which is why I incorrectly believed the A7Xs had a better woofer than the KH120s. The bass attacked better on the A7Xs. But why can I follow the bass better on the KH120?

Because the tweeter on the A7Xs are more detailed than on the KH120. However, the KH120 'stopped' or 'braked' the bass notes more quickly, so I follow the bass better. The woofer in the KH120 is better than the woofer on the A7Xs.

Any tweeter should do so long as it is not poor. Dome, ribbon or horn.

What is difficult with speakers due to costs and physics, is the woofer sounds.

I would like to hear Harbeths, who have a great article on their website explaining the 'IMAX' like, metaphorically speaking, sound stage. And curved soundstage etc, and I concur. Having experienced all these types fron the 3 studio monitors that passed my hands.

The ATC Scm20 ASL MKII, has a monstrous looking 6 inch woofer. And is extremely heavy for a two way nearfield. But I think it aligns with my 'bottoms up' philosophy on audio reproduction.

I recently put on my HD800S and have a new found appreciation for this headphone. Along with my LCD2, they far out resolve studio monitors in the league of A7X and KH120... Due only to physics and the woofer. The tweeters can keep up with my headphones no problems... But from where the woofer takes over all the music, there is no contest. The top end headphones are far superior. More detailed, more technical, more musical, more enjoyable.

Unless sound stage is of primary concern, headphone hold the edge in audio fidelity value for dollar and pound for pound.
 
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Anyone here got any experience with the ATC Scm20 ASL MKII? I think for me to settle on nearfields I have to move above the KH120 and A7Xs.

I will probably sell the A7Xs and keep the KH120s.

These past couple of months, 3 sets of studio monitors have been evaluated. In this time frame the only head phone I used was my SE215s on my daily commute.

I have learned a lot. Like how the tweeter flavours the entire sound of the speakers, because virtually all transient events must pass via the tweeter... Including kick drums and bass guitar.

Which is why I incorrectly believed the A7Xs had a better woofer than the KH120s. The bass attacked better on the A7Xs. But why can I follow the bass better on the KH120?

Because the tweeter on the A7Xs are more detailed than on the KH120. However, the KH120 'stopped' or 'braked' the bass notes more quickly, so I follow the bass better. The woofer in the KH120 is better than the woofer on the A7Xs.

Any tweeter should do so long as it is not poor. Dome, ribbon or horn.

What is difficult with speakers due to costs and physics, is the woofer sounds.

I would like to hear Harbeths, who have a great article on their website explaining the 'IMAX' like, metaphorically speaking, sound stage. And curved soundstage etc, and I concur. Having experienced all these types fron the 3 studio monitors that passed my hands.

The ATC Scm20 ASL MKII, has a monstrous looking 6 inch woofer. And is extremely heavy for a two way nearfield. But I think it aligns with my 'bottoms up' philosophy on audio reproduction.

I recently put on my HD800S and have a new found appreciation for this headphone. Along with my LCD2, they far out resolve studio monitors in the league of A7X and KH120... Due only to physics and the woofer. The tweeters can keep up with my headphones no problems... But from where the woofer takes over all the music, there is no contest. The top end headphones are far superior. More detailed, more technical, more musical, more enjoyable.

Unless sound stage is of primary concern, headphone hold the edge in audio fidelity value for dollar and pound for pound.
If you're looking at nearfields that pricey, add this one to your list as well. It's the one I want.

https://www.adam-audio.com/en/s-series/s2v/

As I mentioned before (I know I'm repeating myself perhaps a bit too much), I think my JBL speakers are far superior to headphones in every way...but it's all just opinions.
 
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If you're looking at nearfields that pricey, add this one to your list as well. It's the one I want.

https://www.adam-audio.com/en/s-series/s2v/

As I mentioned before (I know I'm repeating myself perhaps a bit too much), I think my JBL speakers are far superior to headphones in every way...but it's all just opinions.
I mentioned those a few posts ago. They look totally Darth Vader cool.

I look at the economics of producing a speaker. Where is the cost breakdown, providing the manufacturer is reputable. Going by my Adams, a large part of the cost is the handmade in Germany AMT tweeter. And that is where it's strength is.

My KH120 monitor is similarly priced. It uses a regular dome tweeter, saving cost. It uses a smaller woofer. Where it makes the ground up, is a higher quality woofer, hence I get better mids and more tuneful bass, along with an aluminium housing to contain the physics of the better woofer, hence a better midrange.

I know I prefer to maximise value on the woofer and the associated cabinetry to contain the physics. ATC is a woofer specialist that's how they began as a company, they built woofers. Their economic efficiency is in the woofer.

Adams economic efficiency is in their tweeter, they buikd their own AMT ribbon. They outsource their woofers.

Without being abke to audition both in my room to compare, educated guess is all I can do for what I know I like.

I heard the JBL LSR 305. I don't think I heard a 5 incher go so deep in the bass. Unbelievable speaker to be honest. After all, JBL has massive economy scales, manufacturing all their own drivers. Doggy and birdy ones!
 
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[QUOTE="SP Wild, post: 13487705, member: 142470
Unless sound stage is of primary concern, headphone hold the edge in audio fidelity value for dollar and pound for pound.[/QUOTE]

This is true up to a point. Once you reach the point where the speaker has similar resolution, the headphone stops being better and starts just being different. I also don't know of you can do real surround with headphones and HD surround can sound pretty magical.
 
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