[Heliz]

Hello fellow head-fi-ers,
 
I'm looking for a new pair of open headphones, i will be using them for music, movies and a small amount of gaming. I will also be doing some mixing but that doesn't need to be prioritized. I listen to nearly all genres of music but would prefer something with some bass but not overpowering. My budget will be $250 USD. I would like something that is very comfortable and sounds detailed and has a large soundstage. I've done some research and have come up with a two headphones, the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 ohm and the Sennheiser hd 598. Next I'm wondering if i should get an amp/dac, if i do i would have a budget of $80. Maybe the fiio olympus e10k? Does the amp/dac make a noticeable difference? Thank you for helping me out.

 

[Heliz]

Also why would you go for a 600 ohm headphone over a 32 ohm headphone if they sound the same and the 600 needs a lot more power?

 

[Eurobeat]

Also why would you go for a 600 ohm headphone over a 32 ohm headphone if they sound the same and the 600 needs a lot more power?

I'm not sure I'm the best one to be posting this, since I'm pretty mcuh an audio noobie, but from what I see the issue is the "Output impedance" of your source.

People say your input impedance should be 8-10x the output.  Apparently sound cards are bad with this and have 10+ ohm impedance, which would mean you want 80-100ohm headphones.  Some of the sound cards apparently go even higher, so Idk....

With an amp/DAC you need to find out what the output impedance is, because some cheaper gear is also very high output impedance, and apparently that will kill the quality of the source.


One youtube video, which I don't really know how valid it was since it wasn;'t a very good video, which spoke about sound cards and DACs.  One guy said the sound card was 10, while his DAC was 0.5 or 0.05 ohm impedance, so that's very little.

They were saying if you have an input of 30, and an output of 10, then you get 20 total, or some crap.

So essentially the impedance will kill sound quality if you cannot drive something properly.

It's weird because people say you need to spend more for higher impedance HPs, to "power them" but it seems the HPs are made lower impedance to be cheaper, so that means you need to spend more on a better source.


Again not 100% sure, but this is what I've gathered thus far...

Good luck!

 

[MalVeauX]

  Hello fellow head-fi-ers,
 
I'm looking for a new pair of open headphones, i will be using them for music, movies and a small amount of gaming. I will also be doing some mixing but that doesn't need to be prioritized. I listen to nearly all genres of music but would prefer something with some bass but not overpowering. My budget will be $250 USD. I would like something that is very comfortable and sounds detailed and has a large soundstage. I've done some research and have come up with a two headphones, the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 ohm and the Sennheiser hd 598. Next I'm wondering if i should get an amp/dac, if i do i would have a budget of $80. Maybe the fiio olympus e10k? Does the amp/dac make a noticeable difference? Thank you for helping me out.

 
 

Also why would you go for a 600 ohm headphone over a 32 ohm headphone if they sound the same and the 600 needs a lot more power?

 
Heya,
 
Sounds like the Beyer DT880 would be more up your ally. The DT990 has a lot of mid-bass, but not much more sub-bass. The DT880 has good bass anyways. Overall a better generalist. Get the 32ohm or 250ohm and call it a day, whatever it cheaper.
 
Impedance does not dictate audio quality. One would get a 600ohm impedance version, instead of a 32ohm impedance version, if using an amplifier with a high output impedance (like an OTL tube amplifier) for dampening effect purposes. Low impedance headphones are ideal for solid state based amplifiers and low output devices like portable devices, while high impedances are more useful to match with things with high output impedances, like most sound cards, true OTL tube amps, and some other old amps. Today's tech is getting more and more efficient, so you'll find most things are lower impedance these days. They are otherwise the same headphone, referring to the 32ohm vs 600ohm Beyers, they just have a different way of being matched to specific amplification outputs. You're not getting any less quality using a 32ohm or 250ohm.
 
The E10k would be excellent for the 32ohm and decent for the 250ohm.
 
Very best,

 

[Eurobeat]

   
 
 
Heya,
 
Sounds like the Beyer DT880 would be more up your ally. The DT990 has a lot of mid-bass, but not much more sub-bass. The DT880 has good bass anyways. Overall a better generalist. Get the 32ohm or 250ohm and call it a day, whatever it cheaper.
 
Impedance does not dictate audio quality. One would get a 600ohm impedance version, instead of a 32ohm impedance version, if using an amplifier with a high output impedance (like an OTL tube amplifier) for dampening effect purposes. Low impedance headphones are ideal for solid state based amplifiers and low output devices like portable devices, while high impedances are more useful to match with things with high output impedances, like most sound cards, true OTL tube amps, and some other old amps. Today's tech is getting more and more efficient, so you'll find most things are lower impedance these days. They are otherwise the same headphone, referring to the 32ohm vs 600ohm Beyers, they just have a different way of being matched to specific amplification outputs. You're not getting any less quality using a 32ohm or 250ohm.
 
The E10k would be excellent for the 32ohm and decent for the 250ohm.
 
Very best,

Thanks for the info on the impedance.


You said 

  You're not getting any less quality using a 32ohm or 250ohm.

The quality would matter depending on the output impedance of the source right? If your HPs are too low, and the output is too high, it will mess with quality or no?

You mentioned "dampening factor" which I've heard before, so what exactly is the "dampening" doing?  

Thanks

 

[MalVeauX]

 

Thanks for the info on the impedance.


You said 


The quality would matter depending on the output impedance of the source right? If your HPs are too low, and the output is too high, it will mess with quality or no?

You mentioned "dampening factor" which I've heard before, so what exactly is the "dampening" doing?  

Thanks

 
Heya,
 
Correct, but the point is, you can mismatch either. Putting a 32ohm on a high impedance output amp (OTL tube) would also be poor. While putting a 600ohm on something with next to zero output impedance does nothing other than drop your overall volume, it doesn't help performance. It's about matching sources to loads. That's all it is.
 
Dampening factor can effect frequency response, so it can alter how the headphone is able to render, which can effect how it sounds. A simple rule of thumb is that the load should be about 8 times the output impedance of the source. So something that is 22ohm output impedance (many sound cards, many OTL tube amps, etc, would really need to be in that 200~300ohm range for proper matching in terms of dampening factor to avoid losing frequency response. Something near 0ohm output impedance, can be matched to any load without loss. At that point, the higher impedance simply attenuates volume and noise floor a bit.
 
Very best,

 

[Eurobeat]

   
Heya,
 
Correct, but the point is, you can mismatch either. Putting a 32ohm on a high impedance output amp (OTL tube) would also be poor. While putting a 600ohm on something with next to zero output impedance does nothing other than drop your overall volume, it doesn't help performance. It's about matching sources to loads. That's all it is.
 
Dampening factor can effect frequency response, so it can alter how the headphone is able to render, which can effect how it sounds. A simple rule of thumb is that the load should be about 8 times the output impedance of the source. So something that is 22ohm output impedance (many sound cards, many OTL tube amps, etc, would really need to be in that 200~300ohm range for proper matching in terms of dampening factor to avoid losing frequency response. Something near 0ohm output impedance, can be matched to any load without loss. At that point, the higher impedance simply attenuates volume and noise floor a bit.
 
Very best,

Thanks.  Yeah, I heard a lot of cards are at least 10ohms, while some are 22ohms or so.  I need to figure out how much my X-Fi elite pro is, I think it's 10, but not 100% sure...

Thanks!

 

[PurpleAngel]

  Hello fellow head-fi-ers,
 
I'm looking for a new pair of open headphones, i will be using them for music, movies and a small amount of gaming. I will also be doing some mixing but that doesn't need to be prioritized. I listen to nearly all genres of music but would prefer something with some bass but not overpowering. My budget will be $250 USD. I would like something that is very comfortable and sounds detailed and has a large soundstage. I've done some research and have come up with a two headphones, the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 ohm and the Sennheiser hd 598. Next I'm wondering if i should get an amp/dac, if i do i would have a budget of $80. Maybe the FiiO Olympus e10k? Does the amp/dac make a noticeable difference? Thank you for helping me out.

 
Really should be spend as much of your budget as possible for the headphones.
FiiO E10K or Schiit Fulla, USB DAC/amps, are both under $100.
 
Headphone wise, I think you should check out the Philips Fidelio series, maybe find a good deal on used ones.
I've never listened to the Fidelio myself, but I get the impression they are somewhat like an improved DT990 (Pro 250-Ohm).

 

[Heliz]

Thank you so much for the replys,

Should I ditch an amp/dac and spend the extra money on a pair of he-400 or fidelio?

 

[Heliz]

So beyerdynamic dt 990 with fiio Olympus e10k or he-400/fidelio x2 no amp/dac?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Also why would you go for a 600 ohm headphone over a 32 ohm headphone if they sound the same and the 600 needs a lot more power?

 

It depends on power delivery of whatever headphone amp you have. Low load (headphone) impedance means the amp's output impedance needs to be low as well, and some speaker amps with headphone outputs as well as some studio equipment may have very high impedance.

 

At the same time it's not about "more power" but how an amp delivers that power: low impedance requires more current while high impedance requires more voltage. Low impedance wasn't really a thing save for Grado and Koss (and some, like the K7--'s predecessor, the K50-) for the most part up until the iPod, with many not really taking low impedance drive for Discmans/Walkmans seriously enough as even older stand-alone headphone amps had high output impedance. Everything else remaining the same the impedance can affect certain amps differently and thus even the same headphone can have a few variances in sound depending on the impedance.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Should I ditch an amp/dac and spend the extra money on a pair of he-400 or Fidelio?

 
Hifiman HE-400 vs the Philips Fidelio, not sure which to pick.
HE-400 might be more power demanding then the Fidelio.

 

[PurpleAngel]

So Beyerdynamic dt 990 with fiio Olympus e10k or he-400/Fidelio x2 no amp/dac?

 
If this audio setup is for a Windows PC.
I say to get the Fidelio and maybe a low cost sound card ($25-$35) like the Asus Xonar DG or DGX.

 

[Heliz]

Will there be a big difference between the beyerdynamic dt 990/sennheiser and the he-400/fidelio x2 all powered by the fiio Olympus e10k

 

[Heliz]

I've narrowed it down, Beyerdynamic dt 990 pro vs fidelio x2 both with fiio e10k. I know the fidelio is better but is it with the extra $100