[Steelflight]

Hello Head-Fi,
 
My setup currently consists of a 2013 iMac, Ableton Live 9, Focusrite Saffire PRO24, Genelec 8030A monitors, Sennheiser HD25 and Beyer DT990Pro. As it's a bedroom studio I rarely have the opportunity to use the Genelecs to their full capacity, so find myself on headphones a lot. 
 
I'm really used to the HD25s and know when I can get it sounding good in those it should sound good on everything, but I know they're not really accurate and I'm looking to upgrade ("wooly" bass and a tiring sound are their downfalls for me). My question is - as the number-one-rated over-ear, should I go for HD650s, or do I stretch to the lesser-reviewed EL8s with their high burn-in time?
 
I produce dance music (not so much "chart" dance music though), and I'm looking for pretty accurate reproduction across the spectrum to make nightclub-PA-ready music, or as close as you can get with headphones for that kind of budget.
 
As an experiment I tried the the FiiO Andes E07 and AudioQuest Dragonfly V1.2 DACs to see if they would make a noticeable difference in quality for production, but ended up returning both as I didn't feel there was a big enough difference on HD25s or DT990s.
 
In your opinion, if you wanted to get a more accurate sound for production would you go for a better set of cans (i.e 650s or EL8s), or would you step-up on the interface side? Alternatively, is it not worth the expense doing any of that and should I stick with what I've got!? It'll only be worth it for me if the difference is noticeable.
 
Really interested to know your thoughts!
 
Many thanks,
 
Richard

 

[AElfgarOswald]

Hello fellow Abletoneer!  Here are my two cents on the matter:

Audeze has a pretty track record as far as music production cans are concerned, and I've heard that the EL-8s are keep up that reputation.  The HD650s, if what I've read is correct, don't have a particularly flat sound signature are a bit lacking in highs.  Seeing as you already have DT990s, however, I guess it would make sense to upgrade your interface to one that plays well with headphones (I've never used any Focusrite gear, so I don't know how good those are with headphones).  Whether or not you want to go for an upgrade or entirely new cans is up to you though, and do whatever suits your needs.  I am by no means giving you an expert opinion, but I thought I would try to help out anyway.

P.S.  Soundcloud link?

 

[inthere]

Stick with the HD 25's. 
 
I've ha 3 pairs of 650's and my EL-8's broke a month ago. Audeze's support really sucks. 
 
Out of the 2, I'd say the HD650's are more balanced, but you shouldn't mix with headphones. If you're forced to, use the ones you're most familiar with-which are the HD 25's.

 

[Armaegis]

Is your Focusrite the regular Pro24 or the Pro24DSP with the VRM plugin? That should be a key tool for testing your mixes in different room modes.
 
Also highly consider this:
http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
 
There's a free trial and your (non-specific) DT990 should be supported. If you like the results, you can consider getting a fully calibrated headphone later on.

 

[Steelflight]

Thanks all for the replies. 
 
If HD650s aren't built all that well, and the EL8s are poorly supported I may just stick with what I've got.
 
It's the standard DT990 Pro 250Ohm which I have, and Sonarworks looks like a tempting option, despite my scepticism of software-based tweaking - purely because I feel like it's making hardware do something it wasn't built to do. Still interesting, all the same.
 
Unfortunately it's only the standard Saffire Pro24 I own, so can't use the VRM. 
 
Interface-wise I'd certainly consider upgrading to an UA Apollo Twin Solo. Would have to try it first though to see if there's a noticeable improvement in the DAC compared to a Pro24. If I can make it to the upcoming London CanJam I will do, and see what sounds good (and affordable).
 
http://www.soundcloud.com/richardknottmusic is me. As most producers say though, my best work is yet to come. Some of the production on there is pretty shoddy but there's new stuff around the corner!
 
Thanks again

 

[Armaegis]

I figure it's worth trying the free trial from Sonarworks (note: I have no affiliation or experience with them directly, but the idea is sound... no pun intended)
 
Perhaps also consider the Focusrite VRM Box for testing your mixes. It's usb powered but defaults to using the coax input which I believe you can feed from the Pro24.

 

[Steelflight]

Started using the Sonarworks trial with the 990s. Takes some getting used to, and because it's only DAW-based it makes referencing against tracks played in an external audio player a bit of an ear-twister! Definitely a nifty little piece of software though. Would be more interesting if it could be used as an audio device, much like Soundflower, with the added features of Sonarworks.
 
Have ordered HD650s from somewhere that provides no-fuss 30-day returns. Great price too, so I couldn't resist. Will post my thoughts on them once I've given them a good run through.

 

[Steelflight]

Also, with Sonarworks VST running on the master channel, any additional master processing feels wrong somehow - both before and after master chain. Maybe I just need to get used to it more.

 

[Armaegis]

I wonder if a wrapper or tunnel could be used to route the VST through system audio so you can use an external player.
 
Can you change the order of the vst processing? I'd think the headphone processing should come after all the mastering processes.
 
But I'm just talking smoke now as this is getting out of my knowledge base.

 

[inthere]

  Thanks all for the replies. 
 
If HD650s aren't built all that well, and the EL8s are poorly supported I may just stick with what I've got.
 
It's the standard DT990 Pro 250Ohm which I have, and Sonarworks looks like a tempting option, despite my scepticism of software-based tweaking - purely because I feel like it's making hardware do something it wasn't built to do. Still interesting, all the same.
 
Unfortunately it's only the standard Saffire Pro24 I own, so can't use the VRM. 
 
Interface-wise I'd certainly consider upgrading to an UA Apollo Twin Solo. Would have to try it first though to see if there's a noticeable improvement in the DAC compared to a Pro24. If I can make it to the upcoming London CanJam I will do, and see what sounds good (and affordable).
 
http://www.soundcloud.com/richardknottmusic is me. As most producers say though, my best work is yet to come. Some of the production on there is pretty shoddy but there's new stuff around the corner!
 
Thanks again

There won't be an improvement in DAC; I recorded a loops DVD on a Saffire Lite and got top marks in sound quality everywhere it was reviewed. But you will get an improvement in preamps, which is important if you record a lot of external instruments and vocals, but worth nothing if you don't. 
 
I haven't heard the Apollo but I can say preamps on the Prism Lyra are top notch, also Metric Halo pre amps are even better than standalone preamps, but their support is killing me. 4 months after I sent my unit in and they only told me it was there after I asked them.