Headphones for metal music - ultimate solution
Aug 27, 2020 at 8:36 PM Post #9,947 of 12,269
Just getting into headphones, I use Fearless S8F as my daily iem and love it for extreme metal. I don't have a big budget so looking at used stuff only. Maybe open back or even closed ones. Just need them to handle extremely fast busy tracks ie blackened death..technical death metal without sounding muddy.
Looking at Sennheiser HD series 600/6xx/650 for open back specifically since I found many for around $200 used. My concern is that I read the bass is slow and also wondering if it's too warm sounding. I prefer slightly brighter (not fatiguing) sound over earth shattering bass. Prefer bass quality over quantity, I like bass but clean and fast. It should be able to handle blast beats and intense drumming like Jamie Saint from Ulcerate. Btw the 600/6xx/650 which one is better for metal? By the way I am not adament about open back. If I find a closed back that's better I would sure go for that.
My only options for closed back is Beyer DT series. Since that's all I know of on a budget. I might be missing something better here that can handle extreme metal well. Please enlighten me.
I am aware these headphones do need power so looking for a desktop amp+dac as well. Looking at few options around the budget side. Should I go for the infamous schitt stack modi + magni ? Used comes around $150-160 which is crazy good but I am willing to stretch a lil bit more if there is any better schitt stack combo. Heard about JDS labs atom + Topping D30 combo, is this better than modi+ magni? or should I go for all in one like Topping DX3? I have no clue about amp/dac. Looking for the best vfm in and around $250. Whatever headphone I pick, should look for the best pairing amp/dac rite? Correct me if am wrong please.
Metal being a very demanding genre especially extreme metal, it can be a torture test for the gears. So can't take suggestions from every other audiophile. I can't trust any of the reviews online since most of the reviewers music taste is south of mine. I see a lot of experienced metal heads in this forum so maybe you guys could help me pick the right sounding one. Sound is ofcourse very subjective but atleast you could throw in some options. My budget to the max for both headphone and amp/dac is $500 max. Thanks for reading and hope you can help. Cheers!
 
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Aug 27, 2020 at 11:09 PM Post #9,948 of 12,269
Just a thought. Before I got into high end wired headphones I used wireless headphones. Bose QC35s, like many people. I then started to look for something better, but still in the wireless world, because, well, that was the world I knew. I ended up buying the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless, and I was very happy with that. I listen almost exclusively to (extreme) metal, and while I now know that there are much better headphones, if I had your budget I would seriously consider this. On sale it can probably be secured for 500 dollars new, certainly used should be possible. It has the best bluetooth codecs and allows you to skip the whole amp thing, and gives you the benefit of wireless. And you could add a Dragonfly Cobalt later, when budget allows, and go wired, so there is a possible upgrade path as well. As I said, just a thought.
 
Aug 28, 2020 at 3:38 AM Post #9,949 of 12,269
Just a thought. Before I got into high end wired headphones I used wireless headphones. Bose QC35s, like many people. I then started to look for something better, but still in the wireless world, because, well, that was the world I knew. I ended up buying the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless, and I was very happy with that. I listen almost exclusively to (extreme) metal, and while I now know that there are much better headphones, if I had your budget I would seriously consider this. On sale it can probably be secured for 500 dollars new, certainly used should be possible. It has the best bluetooth codecs and allows you to skip the whole amp thing, and gives you the benefit of wireless. And you could add a Dragonfly Cobalt later, when budget allows, and go wired, so there is a possible upgrade path as well. As I said, just a thought.
Thanks for the reply bro. I am looking for wired options only, Planning for a desktop setup.
 
Sep 7, 2020 at 7:42 AM Post #9,950 of 12,269
Kennerton Thekk

Traditionally, let's start with the general sound signature of the cans. And wel’ll go through the description of characters of the nearest neighbors - Thor and Odin v 2. Highs (unlike Thor and even more so from Odin) with a bright spark, not so intense that you squint at the brightness, but the spark definitely is present and noticeable. Mids are clean and smooth, reminiscent of Thror, but with a noticeable warm, or rather even sweet flavour. Odins, however, differ in a more "rough" (in a good sense) mids. The bass is also not like that of the neighbors – first of all, more prominent on the lower part of the bass and larger in volume. In general, it is closer to Thror-structured and detailed bass, without the fat and slightly unhurried character of Odin bass. But at the same time, the overall quality is probably simpler than that of Thror – it lacks the thoroughness and confidence of attacks. With a larger volume of impact mass, it seems that the density of this substance is less than that of Thror or Odin, so the result from the impact is less impressive (which, for example, on metal music, is quite noticeable). The scene width is superior to both Thror and Odin, in this aspect Thekk is the undisputed leader.

From the first hours of listening, I had the impression that I was dealing with the reincarnation of the Fostex 900, in an isodynamic version. A bit bright treble, sweet mids, provocatively big bass, the overall breadth and boldness of character – everything about them.

Metal.

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What’s impressive.

Power - way to the astral travel. Crazy genre and crazy headphones – 100% subject for synergistic resonance. Frodo and Gandalf dance lezginka with two-handed swords in their teeth to the rhythmic applause of the Nazgûl. The space, brightness and briskness of the bass are the basis of the resonance.

Alternative, Thrash – well, cool and perky, not too serious cans sound signature, sparkle and fervor for subgenres - the very needed things hitting the bull's-eye

Industrial – it turns out almost perfectly (see a more detailed review of Electronica).

Symphonic, Progressive - everything is not so clear. The scale of soundstage is certainly beneficial. And if on relatively frivolous albums, for example early Nightwish all looks well on mood (but here is the quality of these early albums alas…), then on something more thoughtful, say Opeth - relevance of headphones coloration already much less obviously. Well, due to the objectively high level and tear-knocking vocals, the overall impression remains far in the positive zone.

Heavy Metal - headphones perfectly play rock, colored aside from the neutrality of boring – quite delivers the opportunity to exhale and float on the waves of the genre. Well, the technical ability is enough with a reserve.

Not so impressive.

Black, Death, Grindcore – впечатления остаются в целом в положительной зоне. Но вот этот момент явно ставит Thekk ниже и Thror и Odin – «при большем объеме ударной массы такое впечатление, что плотность этой субстанции меньше, чем у Thror или Odin поэтому результат от удара менее впечатляющ». На жанрах Thror отчетливо доминирует большей техничностью, а Odin – характером.

Black, Death, Grindcore – impressions remain generally in a positive zone. But this point clearly puts Thekk below both Thor and Odin – "with a larger volume of impact mass, it seems that the density of this substance is less than that of Thor or Odin, so the result from the impact is less impressive." On these subgenres, Thror is clearly dominates by greater technicality, and Odin - by more synergic character.

Doom, Sludge, Stoner – a quick ride with fog lights on through the subgenres isn't exactly what you expect. It is more correct to collect the fog thicker, tidying up the detail and brightness of the treble, making the meat on the bass fatter.

Goth - anti-synergic for sad genre, fan and joy flow miss to hit the aim.

In total, we have cans that can make the first vivid impression, “wow-factor”. And then hold it securely – due to the fact that the cans are certainly top level cans, the special effects embedded in them do not give the impression of cheap, there is something to look at for your own pleasure. Over a long distance, however, things may not work out so good for Thekk's benefit. For example, Fostex 900, I, after listening to their sweet voices, finally sold without much regret. And in this sense, the higher price of more balanced, neutral, calm and honest Thror looks understandable. Odin really look simpler than Thekk, at least the resolution of the highs and bass in the first place - clearly on the side of Thekk. And if Thekk and Odin are relatives, they are more likely cousins or even second cousins.
 
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Sep 8, 2020 at 11:46 PM Post #9,951 of 12,269
Anybody using Topping D10s + L30 dac/amp? I was about to get one after hours and hours of research but some one just tested out Opeth - Masters Apprentice for me on them and said they sounded muddy for metal. It's a bummer cuz I've finally picked them out from all the rest and now this!! Any opinions for budget dac/amp which can play both high and low impedance is welcome. Will be playing some heavy death/blackened death/ black/doom metal. Detailed lively sound with good instrument seperation even on the most busy tracks is my thing. I use iem's mostly and headphones at time. Not looking for a dap or USB dac, portable dac/amp. Only looking for a desktop setup. Thanks for reading. Up the horns!
 
Sep 9, 2020 at 1:43 AM Post #9,952 of 12,269
Anybody using Topping D10s + L30 dac/amp? I was about to get one after hours and hours of research but some one just tested out Opeth - Masters Apprentice for me on them and said they sounded muddy for metal. It's a bummer cuz I've finally picked them out from all the rest and now this!! Any opinions for budget dac/amp which can play both high and low impedance is welcome. Will be playing some heavy death/blackened death/ black/doom metal. Detailed lively sound with good instrument seperation even on the most busy tracks is my thing. I use iem's mostly and headphones at time. Not looking for a dap or USB dac, portable dac/amp. Only looking for a desktop setup. Thanks for reading. Up the horns!

I have the Topping E30+L30 and have no issue what so ever with it sounding muddy. I also have an Topping A90 with a Soncoz SGD1, no issue there either. FYI I love heavy Opeth (pre Heritage). My guess would be source/file quality, or some sort of equipment for metal issue. IMO dacs nor amplifiers should change or color sound. If they do, theyre not for me. Get the sound characteristics from selecting good headphones or speakers for the genre and have good files.
 
Sep 9, 2020 at 1:53 AM Post #9,953 of 12,269
I have the Topping E30+L30 and have no issue what so ever with it sounding muddy. I also have an Topping A90 with a Soncoz SGD1, no issue there either. FYI I love heavy Opeth (pre Heritage). My guess would be source/file quality, or some sort of equipment for metal issue. IMO dacs nor amplifiers should change or color sound. If they do, theyre not for me. Get the sound characteristics from selecting good headphones or speakers for the genre and have good files.
Thanks for your reply. I live remote so can't test any gears before buying. Being very new to this, it's just confusing when you read reviews. I've been told by an E30 owner that's it sounds warm you are saying it's transparent. I do beleive they should be transparent but so many opinions it's just difficult for a newbie. I've been told E30 sounds warmer compared to D10s which is apparently very bright. Not sure what to make out of it. On the budget combo what's the best available choice right now?

A big fan of the heavier side of opeth. Have been enjoying Morningrise last night, Dan Swano's production work is just eargasmic.
 
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Sep 9, 2020 at 2:22 AM Post #9,954 of 12,269
Thanks for your reply. I live remote so can't test any gears before buying. Being very new to this, it's just confusing when you read reviews. I've been told by an E30 owner that's it sounds warm you are saying it's transparent. I do beleive they should be transparent but so many opinions it's just difficult for a newbie. I've been told E30 sounds warmer compared to D10s which is apparently very bright. Not sure what to make out of it. On the budget combo what's the best available choice right now?

A big fan of the heavier side of opeth. Have been enjoying Morningrise last night, Dan Swano's production work is just eargasmic.

I have not heard the Topping D10s, so I am unable to form an opinion. However, what I can provide is that I spoke with JohnYang who works for Topping and help develop both the A90 and L30. He is also a metal head. They are both designed and measure to be transparent devices. I also live quite remotely in Hawaii, I have no access to test gears either. You just have to read as much as you can and form an opinion of what to try. Dont think you need to buy expensive gears to get good quality stuff. You dont even need to think "budget". A DAC is just that, a digital to analog converter. It doesnt cost 4000 dollars to do. Find stuff with the inputs and features you need and get them.
 
Sep 9, 2020 at 2:35 AM Post #9,955 of 12,269
I have not heard the Topping D10s, so I am unable to form an opinion. However, what I can provide is that I spoke with JohnYang who works for Topping and help develop both the A90 and L30. He is also a metal head. They are both designed and measure to be transparent devices. I also live quite remotely in Hawaii, I have no access to test gears either. You just have to read as much as you can and form an opinion of what to try. Dont think you need to buy expensive gears to get good quality stuff. You dont even need to think "budget". A DAC is just that, a digital to analog converter. It doesnt cost 4000 dollars to do. Find stuff with the inputs and features you need and get them.
Thanks bro, I have decided to go with the L30 as my amp. For DAC I am.a bit confused. Thing is it's supposed to be transparent but D10s comes with saber which I know is the brighter dac from experience and E30 comes with Akm which is by its own nature more warm sounding. I have owned daps with both chips so I know they are sonically different. Are you telling me these doesn't affect the sound characteristics? You sound happy listening to death metal on E30.
P.S Your from Hawaii, we are neighbours then lol not really but am from Unalaska
 
Sep 9, 2020 at 1:24 PM Post #9,956 of 12,269
Hey, I wanted to ask if anyone has listened to the Kennerton Magni here and could tell me a bit about them? Search function was a bit useless, as it just came up with results about the Shiit Magni amp.

For context, why I am asking, and what I am searching for: I mostly listen to power metal and rock, but my taste in genres varies pretty wildly besides that. My old headphones (Audeze Mobius reskin) broke and now I'm looking for a replacement. I am willing to spend a bit more money for the upgrade (700€, possibly a bit more), but most of the stuff that scored well for that on levap's sheet is a bit out of my pricerange. However, I love the aesthetic of the Kennertons, the wood looks so nice. If possible I would go for the Thekk. I've also heard the Vali is a really good headphone in general, and I might go for that, but including import it's already very close to hitting my pain limit.

Sadly I haven't found an importer for Germany which would allow me to do a trial listen (I'd have to pay import), so I am asking here. Thanks in advance for your help.

EDIT: Oh, almost forgot. Besides the sound, how is the build quality? After the nightmare with the Audeze plastic I am a bit wary of plastic parts in critical position on headphones.
 
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Sep 10, 2020 at 10:03 PM Post #9,957 of 12,269
Thanks bro, I have decided to go with the L30 as my amp. For DAC I am.a bit confused. Thing is it's supposed to be transparent but D10s comes with saber which I know is the brighter dac from experience and E30 comes with Akm which is by its own nature more warm sounding. I have owned daps with both chips so I know they are sonically different. Are you telling me these doesn't affect the sound characteristics? You sound happy listening to death metal on E30.
P.S Your from Hawaii, we are neighbours then lol not really but am from Unalaska
I am a fellow metalhead, and own the Topping E30/L30 stack. It's a great combo, but I'm sure you would be happy with the D10s and L30, and not really hear any difference, both are very transparent.
To be honest, the E30/L30 stack sounds just about as good as my RME ADI-2 DAC / Topping A90 combo with most of the headphones I own, just less power than the A90 with the balanced headphone output.
 
Sep 11, 2020 at 1:36 AM Post #9,958 of 12,269
I am a fellow metalhead, and own the Topping E30/L30 stack. It's a great combo, but I'm sure you would be happy with the D10s and L30, and not really hear any difference, both are very transparent.
To be honest, the E30/L30 stack sounds just about as good as my RME ADI-2 DAC / Topping A90 combo with most of the headphones I own, just less power than the A90 with the balanced headphone output.
Its confusing for someone entering into the scene. I find many users/reviews stating that D10s is brighter and E30 is warmer. On the other side the general theory that they are transparent. I have an R3pro saber dap with ess dac and it is brighter while my USB dac (Ibasso dc02) with Akm chip do sound warm clearly. So I don't know what to beleive lol I just want something that can handle death metal without sounding muddy that's all. Every instrument should be well defined and seperated and overall should sound energetic. E30 and L30 seems like a winning combo already. Finding myself heading that direction.
 
Sep 13, 2020 at 3:38 PM Post #9,959 of 12,269
Its confusing for someone entering into the scene. I find many users/reviews stating that D10s is brighter and E30 is warmer. On the other side the general theory that they are transparent. I have an R3pro saber dap with ess dac and it is brighter while my USB dac (Ibasso dc02) with Akm chip do sound warm clearly. So I don't know what to beleive lol I just want something that can handle death metal without sounding muddy that's all. Every instrument should be well defined and seperated and overall should sound energetic. E30 and L30 seems like a winning combo already. Finding myself heading that direction.
I own the E30 and find it to be perfectly transparent. Anyone who claims night and day differences between the D10s and the E30 is deluding themselves.
I recently did an in-depth comparison between the E1DA 9038S Gen 3 and the JDS Labs Element that may be illuminating: https://medium.com/bedrock-reviews/e1da-9038s-gen-3-review-b94e0216f268
Even after volume matching, I first perceived the 9038S to be more spacious and tighter sounding with better detail retrieval and better definition of and separation between notes, while the Element sounded slightly smoother and warmer in tonality. These differences were very slight even under critical listening conditions.
What I then discovered was that the digital filter used on the E1DA was entirely responsible for my differing perceptions. The Element uses a minimum phase digital filter, while the 9038S uses a linear phase filter by default. After flashing a minimum phase slow roll-off filter firmware to the E1DA and recomparing the two I no longer heard a clear difference.
The E30 and D10S have a variety of different digital filters you can swap between. I recommend experimenting with them.
 
Sep 13, 2020 at 5:58 PM Post #9,960 of 12,269
I own the E30 and find it to be perfectly transparent. Anyone who claims night and day differences between the D10s and the E30 is deluding themselves.
I recently did an in-depth comparison between the E1DA 9038S Gen 3 and the JDS Labs Element that may be illuminating: https://medium.com/bedrock-reviews/e1da-9038s-gen-3-review-b94e0216f268
Even after volume matching, I first perceived the 9038S to be more spacious and tighter sounding with better detail retrieval and better definition of and separation between notes, while the Element sounded slightly smoother and warmer in tonality. These differences were very slight even under critical listening conditions.
What I then discovered was that the digital filter used on the E1DA was entirely responsible for my differing perceptions. The Element uses a minimum phase digital filter, while the 9038S uses a linear phase filter by default. After flashing a minimum phase slow roll-off filter firmware to the E1DA and recomparing the two I no longer heard a clear difference.
The E30 and D10S have a variety of different digital filters you can swap between. I recommend experimenting with them.
Thanks for that. I am very new to this so digital filter alters the sound? can you pls explain what is this digital filter and what they exactly do?
 

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