headphone vs monitor amp, recommendations pls

[easily_amused]

I was wondering if someone could provide me with insight into my options for adding high quality monitors, or bookshelf speakers, to my current studio.

I work from home doing visual effects and have a small studio. Usually I have my focal Elears plugged into an Aune x1s, into my PC. I'm having people come to my office more and more now so am thinking of getting some nice monitors or bookshelf speakers to compliment this setup. I'm looking at ls50, Yamaha h8, and some others.

I am also looking to upgrade my headphone amp and get some new cans later this year. The Aune is ok but I get better sound out of my zx300a, and I'm thinking of going balanced. I had been thinking about the caycin head stack maybe...

What' the best way to approach all this in terms of modularity?

I know there are all in one solutions like the Peachtree which can drive speakers as well as headphones but I've also heard that's maybe not an optimal solution - like having a dac/amp combo, it means you can't upgrade independently etc. Are speaker and headphone amps so different?

I could also go with the wireless ls50s which are active with their own internal amp, that would kind of mitigate me needing to worry about the speaker amp side of things, right?

Or is it worth really going for a full stack type thing? With receivers and that stuff which I really don't know anything about? I barely understand the difference between pre and power amps! But I do appreciate good sound quality from a critical viewpoint. And I have upgradetis.

 

[PurpleAngel]

It would be helpful if you listed a budget?

 

[easily_amused]

It would be helpful if you listed a budget?

Money isn't a huge issue. I'm happy to drop $5k-6k if needed. I'm more trying to understand what the best way is to run both speakers and headphones from a single 'setup' rather than ask for absolutely specific pieces of equipment (although that advice is also valued).

I am happy to get pieces over a longer period if necessary, which would allow increased budget.

 

[Whitigir]

Speakers and headphones are different. Look at the impedance on speakers...mainly 3-8ohms...and headphones are 30-600ohms. Of course the amplifiers have to be much different. But if you want something similar to what you are asking, check this out. Not sure how it perform with your headphones experience
http://www.luxman-global.com/product/detail.php?id=26

 

[headpfizer]

I would suggest getting a DAC/AMP combo with variable pre-outs and active monitors. That way you don't have to worry about a power amp for the speakers. If you wanted you could get separate amp and dac for future switcheroos. For example you could get a Schitt Jotenheim (solid state) or Lyr 3 (tube). Both have pre-outs and the option of coming with a DAC built in or you can connect your own DAC. Either will also power virtually any headphone you throw at it. There are other brands, just an example.

 

[easily_amused]

Speakers and headphones are different. Look at the impedance on speakers...mainly 3-8ohms...and headphones are 30-600ohms. Of course the amplifiers have to be much different. But if you want something similar to what you are asking, check this out. Not sure how it perform with your headphones experience
http://www.luxman-global.com/product/detail.php?id=26

So speakers and headphones need different amplification, which can be done in the same box/unit but thats not common I'm gathering? Also it is may not be desirable as one of the outputs is probably a compromise? It seems this sort of single unit isn't recommended at least...

So it's better to get two amplifiers then (or have speakers with integrated amps) and run them both out of the same DAC, or you chain them using the pre-out?

This is the part where I get confused. Like I understand most of the broad concepts (like speakers and headphones have different impedance and hence different amp reqs) but I don't understand what the options are for chaining these from a single source (probably a PC or DAP) - or from multiple sources.

It sounds like an independent DAC with a bunch of outputs is the best way to go. Then I can either chain these down through headphone to stereo amps, or I can output in parallel to those amps. And if I go for speakers with integrated amps then I don't even need all this?

I assume I have to worry about the DAC outputs being fine for the various amp inputs, but it shouldn't be rocket science?

This hobby can be intimidating for those of us just branching out. I am sorry for so many questions. Pre-outs, Phonos, Integrated amplifiers, pre-amplifiers, power amplifiers. Gah!

 

[easily_amused]

I would suggest getting a DAC/AMP combo with variable pre-outs and active monitors. That way you don't have to worry about a power amp for the speakers. If you wanted you could get separate amp and dac for future switcheroos. For example you could get a Schitt Jotenheim (solid state) or Lyr 3 (tube). Both have pre-outs and the option of coming with a DAC built in or you can connect your own DAC. Either will also power virtually any headphone you throw at it. There are other brands, just an example.

Thanks! Yes I was looking at the KEF LS50 wireless speakers ... it would simplify a lot of things and, while expensive, I assume the savings on an amp would pay for much of the cost difference.

My only concern is that if I want to change speakers later, or add more speakers, then I'll end up spending that money anyway.

I think getting a separate DAC seems to be a common wise choice given all of the above.

I wonder if the Cayin iDAC would work for that. I was considering that stack for headphones anyway. I was also looking at a Hugo 2. If I don' need different DACs for headphone and speaker setups that would be good

 

[buke9]

If you want a dac that has multiple outputs you might look at Schiit Gungnir or Yggdrasil the Yggy is big though but is a stellar dac.

 

[PaganDL]

Hi Easily_amused,

Don't worry about too many different things for now, you will get the hang of it in due time.

A few suggestions for you to consider in my humble opinion, since you asked about speakers first, I will start with those.
In terms of value for performance, I recommend something like the Genlec 8000 series, (I have the 8010A) since they will be on your desk, you don't really need more than nearfield monitors though the 8020 or 8030 can act as mid range monitors as well if set correctly.
It is essential to note, no matter what speakers or monitors you decide on, placement is important as well as source.

This brings me to the next point :

Depending on your needs, you need to decide what kind of setup you're aiming towards & if modularity is one of your key points, consider the following :
Say if you want to switch between your monitors & headphones, most amplifiers have decent to good functionality for both though most don't interface directly with a PC to make this easy which is why I suggest something like a usb computer interface like Lexicon Alpha or any in the Focusrite Scarlett Series to act as your external soundcard &/or device, this can serve as a DAC as well.
The USB interfaces have good connections for both headphones & monitors though keep in mind, adapters (RCA to XLR) will likely be needed depending what active speakers you decide on.
For added control & functionality, especially when switching between headphones & monitors, there are special amplifiers called monitor controllers which are basically like your audio setup switchboard, as an example, I use the Drawmer MC 2.1.

For headphone amps, it depends whether you want tube or solid state or a hybrid as well as what type of sound, some to consider are as follows in no particular order :

Rupert Neve RNHP
Cavalli Tube Hybrid or CTH
iBasso P5 Falcon
Presonus HP 4
Elemental Watson
Oppo HA2SE (Consider getting this before they disappear as production for new units has ceased)

There are many others of course but the above I own & have the most experience with & are modular to some degree.

In terms of headphones, depending on your needs, balanced may or may not offer you more or any different though there will be some which both agree & disagree but this is my subjective & personal opnion.
Nowadays, balanced cables are easy to get with either 2.5 mm, Pentaconn 4.4 mm or even 3.5 mm or if you can solder & have time, do yourself.
Saying this, it is important to note not all amps are technically balanced from the circuit even though they have a balanced output.
For amps which are not balanced from the circuit (single ended) but have the balanced output share one basic characteristic with balanced circuts in they generally provide a stronger signal path from source to output.
Whether they really sound any different is a matter of debate & personally subjective & the only one who can decide is you & your opinion but I digress.

Anyway, hope this is helpful.

 

[easily_amused]

Hi Easily_amused,

Don't worry about too many different things for now, you will get the hang of it in due time.

A few suggestions for you to consider in my humble opinion, since you asked about speakers first, I will start with those.
In terms of value for performance, I recommend something like the Genlec 8000 series, (I have the 8010A) since they will be on your desk, you don't really need more than nearfield monitors though the 8020 or 8030 can act as mid range monitors as well if set correctly.
It is essential to note, no matter what speakers or monitors you decide on, placement is important as well as source.

This brings me to the next point :

Depending on your needs, you need to decide what kind of setup you're aiming towards & if modularity is one of your key points, consider the following :
Say if you want to switch between your monitors & headphones, most amplifiers have decent to good functionality for both though most don't interface directly with a PC to make this easy which is why I suggest something like a usb computer interface like Lexicon Alpha or any in the Focusrite Scarlett Series to act as your external soundcard &/or device, this can serve as a DAC as well.
The USB interfaces have good connections for both headphones & monitors though keep in mind, adapters (RCA to XLR) will likely be needed depending what active speakers you decide on.
For added control & functionality, especially when switching between headphones & monitors, there are special amplifiers called monitor controllers which are basically like your audio setup switchboard, as an example, I use the Drawmer MC 2.1.

For headphone amps, it depends whether you want tube or solid state or a hybrid as well as what type of sound, some to consider are as follows in no particular order :

Rupert Neve RNHP
Cavalli Tube Hybrid or CTH
iBasso P5 Falcon
Presonus HP 4
Elemental Watson
Oppo HA2SE (Consider getting this before they disappear as production for new units has ceased)

There are many others of course but the above I own & have the most experience with & are modular to some degree.

In terms of headphones, depending on your needs, balanced may or may not offer you more or any different though there will be some which both agree & disagree but this is my subjective & personal opnion.
Nowadays, balanced cables are easy to get with either 2.5 mm, Pentaconn 4.4 mm or even 3.5 mm or if you can solder & have time, do yourself.
Saying this, it is important to note not all amps are technically balanced from the circuit even though they have a balanced output.
For amps which are not balanced from the circuit (single ended) but have the balanced output share one basic characteristic with balanced circuts in they generally provide a stronger signal path from source to output.
Whether they really sound any different is a matter of debate & personally subjective & the only one who can decide is you & your opinion but I digress.

Anyway, hope this is helpful.

Wow, thanks for the response!

Just to give some clarity, my home studio is more visual effects orientated, I don't have much audio equipment really. I've got calibrated monitors, a couple of computers, racks of storage, a TV etc. I actually was thinking of putting speakers/monitors on stands behind the TV. I've read a bit about how placement is important. I'm going to get some sound proofing pads too to help make the room less square etc. I'm sure it'll be fun figuring all of that out.

I'm pretty good with the headphone side of things. I have a bit of equipment and some decent cans already. I'm looking to expand into some higher end stuff soon. I also have a collection of about 20 obscure Chinese amps and a couple of dac/amp combos. I live in Beijing so I enjoy buying stuff that's kind of thrown together here. I'm actually considering going balanced with my next real amp. I was thinking about the Violectric V281 or the Headamp GS-X Mk2, but it will depend on which cans I buy next - I'm tossing up between HD800s, Clears, HEX or Auteurs. The other option I've been looking at is the Cayin iDAC stack, including maybe their new iDAP. It's reasonably priced and might be a good middle step before I go to the much higher end gear. It's also balanced the whole way through so that's a plus if I want to start working out new cables. I also like the CTH. For mobile I'm using 4.4mm balanced cables for my zx300 (with Adromedas and Elears) and that adds a lot to that particular setup.

DAC wise, if I don't do the cayin stack, then maybe the Yggy is the best bet because of the flexibility in the outputs? I like the idea of Chord products, and have a Mojo, but I'm not sure about it fitting into all the other equipment? Is there some advantage to using a USB interface like the Focusrite Scarlett you mentioned, over using a dedicated DAC? I guess I don't understand the difference between this and running USB out of my PC into a Yggy, for example.

The Genlec speakers look pretty awesome, and Genlec seem to have a very solid reputation for monitors right? If I go with the 8000 series then I don't need them amp'ed right? I could run them out of a DAC directly with XLR cables (or RCA to XLR converter etc)?

If I don't have to significantly change my headphone setup then this all becomes a lot easier

 

[PaganDL]

Hi easily_amused,

No problem, happy to help.

Genelecs are active monitors so they don't need amplification in the traditional sense the way passives do as they have their own power cables, so basically XLR cables with or without adapters are all that's needed for audio.
An amplifier for active speakers, eg Drawmer MC 2.1 as mentioned, to control the volume output or even the Presonus HP 4 (also mentioned, it has a pass through) is really all that's needed.
What's more, they are built to last.
All Genelecs are among the easiest monitors to put on stands, they make their own or have their own approved offical knock off made by their subsidary, Konig Meyer.
I believe there are a few studios in Beijing which actually use Genelecs though don't know who actually uses the 8000 series but you can certainly ask around if any will show you their setup of other ranges so you get a general sense &/or idea.

A usb computer interface like any of the Focusrite Scarletts I mentioned or even the Lexicon Alpha, all serve as external soundcard/DAC/Recording Interface & due to being essentially a three in one with overall better DSP functionality as well, makes it great value & compared to something like the Yggy is basically tank like so in other words, it lasts.

The Vioelectric V281 is very solid as a head amp & a better performer than the Headamp GSX MK 2 but personally I prefer the RNHP as 'despite' being single ended is still more than powerful & more reference sound than the V 281 but that's just my personal & subjective opinion.

Honestly, it all depends on you, regardless of budget, go with whatever gives you the most value & most of all, sounds good to you.

Let me know what you decide & if I can help some more, just ask.