[Carlos3]

What is it about headphones in particular that results in such diehard partisanship?

If you visit the various supplementary fora for amps, sources, cables, etc., everyone generally seems to be open minded and easy going in terms of comparing, contrasting, and criticizing the sound of different amplifiers (with one notable exception) and other components.

But it seems that anytime there is a "vs" question, or even just a query into one of the major dynamic players (HD 600/CD3000/Grado) the partisans show up with their knives sharpened. I've gotten fairly leery even of visiting the headphone forum. I don't see the need for so much vituperation in what is at the end-of-the-day a hobby.

I've got a few minor listening notes from when I had both the Senn HD 580 and CD3000, contrasting their different approaches, but I've become disinclined to post them given that I'd rather not have to wear asbestos underwear to do it. While I prefer the Sony's to the Senn's for specific reasons, I cetainly don't hate the latter. I might've even waited for the HD 650s if I'd known that Sennheisser was going to make fundamental changes to the sound. (Though as things are now, I'm pretty happy with the way my system is developing - no buyers remorse.)

Why does it seem that so often, so many can't love their headphones without hating the others?

 

[bangraman]

It seems more to be a case of what each owner has been able to buy, then defending it to the last because it's the best phone they've been able to buy so far, and that going to some less than optimal Head-Fi meet has convinced them that X sucks. Logic should dictate that such meets serve as tasters at best. I see such arguments mainly as "The battle of the discharged (and long time to recharge) wallets"

I'm amazed there is this kind of behaviour. While I rag one manufacturer because I don't think their high end stuff is up to the standard set by others, many I "argue" with are cool with it. They see my point, I see theirs, and the thread perhaps becomes a point of reference for others to read over. I suppose some people have more hair triggers than others. I say ignore it and post. If it becomes a flame war, just leave it up to the combatants, then jump in at the end when all those people have ended up looking really stupid

 

[etcetera_boingo]

I know what you mean. I think you should go ahead and post your impressions though.

Me personally, I own a pair of Radioshack headphones, and while they aren't terrible, they certainly aren't great either, I only paid 25 bucks for them marked down from 50 so I figured what the heck. They actually sounded decent anyways.

Should anyone come in posting about how they suck etc. etc. I won't argue it too much, I mean yeah, they do kind of suck compared to HD600's and all that hardcore gearage.

I think part of the problem is that people don't state a headphones faults CAREFULLY. You can't just come in and say things like "HD600's suck" and not expect to be flamed into oblivion. Someone who gets flamed for posting ingenius reviews like this deserves it IMO.

Now if you are carefull and describe you listening tastes and then describe why a particular headphone didn't work FOR YOU, then I think you shouldn't be flamed. And in most cases you probably won't be.

 

[markl]

carlos,
Please feel free to post impressions, they are always welcome.

I think headphones are argued over more than amps sources cables etc., because there are so darn few of them to choose from at the HD600/CD3000/RS1/DT880/W2002/K1000 level. Headphone forum is also the most active one here (logically enough!

) Most everyone here has either owned or heard many of the major players in the headphone market, so everyone has an opinion to discuss. When someone comes in with a review of a new Brand X headamp, or a new cable from Company Y, not so much controversy, no one else or very few people have heard the amp/cables in question, hence less debate.

I think that these heated discussions are inevitable and seem to be one of the essential topics of discussion here and at HeadWize since the start. It's always been like this, really.

Mark

 

[MacDEF]

Agree with what others have said. For a lot of people, it comes down to wanting to think that what they own is the best, and not wanting to feel that their stuff (or their hearing) is "inferior."

But it's also true, in my opinion, that the back-and-forth that occurs here is a healthy way for people to understand how to be a critical listener. And hearing different perspectives helps you understand where you fit on the listening spectrum. (In other words, what your own preferences are compared to those of other people.)


Unfortunately, I seem to end up in the middle of too many of these silly debates because I'm pretty anal about people posting opinions as "fact"

If someone come into a thread and states their opinion as if it is the end-all, be-all truth, that bugs me. Not because I personally feel "threatened," but because this is a forum where newbies come for advice and an "authoritative-sounding" assertion can often sound like a "consensus" the way some people phrase them. So I will simply point out that the stated view isn't necessarily true for everyone.

Of course, the people who make such "authoritative" statements tend to also be the ones who get the most defensive if you question their views

So I then get flamed for saying anything...

(In fact, I'll probably get taken to task for even writing this. Oh, well.)


The must frustrating times are when you're trying to be objective about two headphones, pointing out what you like and don't like about each. I like both the HD 600 and the DT 880 a lot, and when people were asking about them, I talked about what I preferred about each. The replies I got from both sides were pretty aggressive!

 

[gpalmer]

I have to agree on this one. I think the HD600 versus CD3000 thread is rather out of control. I have several headphones, I enjoy all of them, none of them are perfect. Last time I read that thread it seemed some folks had forgotten that it's all subjective and a matter of taste. Ah well, that's life!

 

[MusicLover]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF For a lot of people, it comes down to wanting to think that what they own is the best, and not wanting to feel that their stuff (or their hearing) is "inferior."

I think that has a lot to do with it, especially for people relatively new to headphones. The first few weeks I had my HD600 I thought they were the best and was offended by many opinions against it. That was probably just because I was trying to justify the price. Now I know better.

 

[Carlos3]

I think part of what I find peculiar in this is that I haven't seen people attacking each other this way over brands of speakers (on other forums). I suppose Mark may be right in that we have too few brands to choose from. Perhaps it is like the US in the mid-20th century, when your family either went Ford, Plymouth, or Chevy (or something like that) and this was part of your identity.

 

[CD44hi]

Hey Carlos3

I am a headphone person. If it sounds good, I'll use it. Heck, I have own (and sold also!) almost pretty much every single step up the Grado ladder. Even though I've like them, I've also come to learn about their limitations. In this respect, I am looking forward to owning some CD3k and some HD600s ( I have extensively auditioned both) in the future. WHY? because each also have areas where they shine like no other. I think that's the beauty of variety, AND of having an open mind. Also very importantly, there is the context were one uses the cans within. For a very specific example. At first I never felt the W2002s were my cup o'tea. That until I heard them through the MPX3. They really open up and are effective transducers of body and detail. Both characteristics I like very much.

Most high-end headphones have characteristics which other lack. It is very difficult to get an all-in-one headphone. I feel the need to use closed cans for certain times, while open ones for others. I hope this cheers you up!

CD..

 

[fractus2]

I think everything is cool as long as you don't comment on something you have not heard. When reading posts, keep his or her experience level in mind by checking how long they've been here and the equipment in their profile. It's sort of like figuring out if an ebay seller is kosher or not, you need to do a little investigating and make a judgment call.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by CD44hi I am a headphone person[/b]. If it sounds good, I'll use it.

Hey, don't steal my line

(see my title)

 

[CD44hi]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Hey, don't steal my line (see my title)

Hey Mac,

Sorry to break it to ya, but in a place like this you are bound to encounter more than one headphone person

 

[wallijonn]

or it could be anomosity which has spilled over from other forums, the Take It Outside (and leave it outside) threads, or the community's lax in straightening out newcomers when they troll, or get out of line. just why do you allow one member to attack another? it's much easier to be apologetic than to be confrontational.

of course it could just be the fact that everyone is waiting for something new, like the HD650. The same wars went around when the HP890, W1000, DT880, etc. came out. I expect that it'll continue. It does make for lively discussion. If only we could detach from emotionalism; because a lot of time emotionalism leads to personal attack.

I don't think that there are too few headphones out there. I feel that there are enough to satisify a lot of tastes. And for the most part people are arguing over incidentals and nuances.

of course it could very well be headphone-envy, whereby everyone is justifying a purchase; for not being "wowed" afterwards. I also wonder why people argue over $10 to $50 in price over a piece of equipment. It seems that everyone is trying not to spend one dollar more than they should. does it really matter that you can get a DT880 for $245 or $270? why not buy whichever one is closest to you? (so long as it is from a reputable dealer).

 

[Snufkin]

The only thing that bothers me is the "I bought X so you should too, I don't know about VWYZ, but X is great.. so buy it" responses that seem to be popping up more frequently now.

I've never understood the reasoning behind recommending something to make you feel better about your own purchase.

I find myself holding back on posting my opinion now, firstly because I'm a dealer and therefore people may think I'm biased, but second because I post from an experienced yet emotional point of view instead of an analytical point of view and feel that sometimes an emotional opinion isn't as welcome as an analytical one.
What I mean by this is my views on audio equipment are how it makes me feel, whether it gets me up and dancing, not whether I can hear every breath or shuffle of paper in music, I don't care about minor details - I care about the big picture.

Needless to say, I'm a headphone person too - I usually reach randomly for headphones without even thinking about what I'll be listening to (then realise I've grabbed the wrong one!)

When it comes to recommending though, I'm a lot more careful - I throw away what I like and consider what the person asking for recommendation might like. There is no best headphone IMHO, but some people out there seem to think otherwise - that their headphone of choice is the BEST, for EVERYONE.. and they'll darnwell ENJOY IT.. BUY IT NOW.... and if you don't like it.. YOU'RE AN IDIOT. etc.

ok, rant off

I'll go back to sitting quietly in the corner again.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Snufkin ok, rant off I'll go back to sitting quietly in the corner again.

Don't do that, Snufkin. For all the reasons you listed, your opinions about headphones are among those I value the most on Head-Fi