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Headphone Burn-in

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by robeats, Jan 8, 2011.
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  1. gregorio
     
    Absolutely!
     
     
    That's a shame, you'd find the human perception of hearing even more fascinating if you understood how it's fooled and how easily it's fooled. And, the flaws of human hearing exist whether you "find" (or are aware of) them or not!
     
     
    It's your time and it's entirely up to you how you want to waste it.
     
    G
     
  2. castleofargh Contributor
    @CADCAM you play 6CDs of different genres at night for 3days to deal with burn in, if you don't provide any reason for any of those choices, then I understand it's a superstition. I throw salt over my shoulder, knock on wood, play 6CDs at night. without even trying to explain yourself rationally, where is the difference? what is it that you expected when making your post? that we would all say "oh thanks, I'll try"?
    with your post you don't care about reasons, you don't care about actual impact, you assume that we're way past the debate of wondering if burn-in is an actual thing, how or when it happens, if the magnitude of chances are significant or if most of it is in our head... and just go straight to give us your secret recipe to deal with a problem we're not even sure to have, by doing something that may not be different to doing anything else. 
    did I get something wrong?
     
  3. CADCAM
    Edited this post but forgot to "quote" myself so here it is. 
     
    BTW here'sa few responses I received from from a couple of gentlemen who obviously treated my passion for audio with great respect and offered up these helpful insights~
     
    Castleofargh wrote:  I bet it would "work" just the same if you removed one disc and instead put a chicken leg on the headphone.
     
    Roly1650's stated: Running music through them without listening seems exactly the same to me as giving your brand new car to the neighbour to break-in, because, hey, the car is so goddam awful to drive when it's new.
     
    gregorio said: This is the deluded mantra of so many audiophiles. 
    you're doing it wrong!!
    I'm virtually 100% certain my speaker placement is substantially better than yours.
     
  4. VNandor

    While I agree that the manner they used to express their thoughts on the topic is not right but their points still stand. They did provide insight you just simply ignored it. Believe it or not, hearing differences just won't cut it under a lot of circumstances.
     
    You described a lengthy burn-in process just to say  at the end it is only your opinion and after that you decided not to add any factual evidence regarding the changes. Anecdotes are cool but they are going to be treated as... anecdotes.
     
    I think there was a research done about burning in headphones and the conclusion was that the differences were minuscule. I might be able to dig it up if you want it or you can try to find it yourself. One of the numerous reasons why the idea of burn-in is strange is that if it did improve the sound so drastically then why the manufacturers don't do it themselves? Sure it takes a bit of time and effort, but nothing compared to the whole producing process, and they could end up with a presumably much better product and a better product can mean more money.
     
  5. pashhtk27
    Maybe the extra cost is not justified over something which is not very apparent.

    Am I wrong to say that burn in exists, only the degree to which the changes are felt are variable for all headphones/earphones. And the details of the process are not really sorted out so we have the existence of rituals. AND it is these rituals that anger the critics, and lead to chaos all over the forums. :p
    Though, I will say that I read the thread and there were points I didn't really understand. :D
     
  6. castleofargh Contributor
    does it mean that you believe I would lose my bet? 5CDs or 6CDs would make a difference? the chicken leg most likely won't, but I go on a limb here.***badum tss***
     
    do something about the content of the posts instead of pretending that only the form is what stops you from having a reasonable conversation.  when wondering if vampires exist and if they're in your country, you don't go "well I stop vampires from entering my house, by placing legos on the ground all pointing south, and cross on every doors and windows". then expect people not to look at you funny. because it implies that you believe not only in vampire, but also in the effect of everything you're doing. so you know things we don't and given how many times I've asked by now, you're really holding out on us, or you don't and we're back to rituals.
     
    burn in is such a wide term used by people who usually don't even care to try and remove the "human brain plasticity" part of the equation, that yes it "exists", something somewhere will change when using it, if only from entropy or mechanical wear. but you're right to talk about the degree of change, because we should care. and care if doing something will lead to a different headphone than doing something else?
    just like we have no idea if any change like this can be an improvement.  what if the headphone is at specs on day one, and then slowly goes toward wear out until it will break? who decides? just to believe that the resulting change if any will be positive is going way too far in making assumptions IMO.
    in my head I see evidence of significant changes, or manufacturers telling people about it for their device, as them saying "hey we make unstable crap! so if you don't like it at first, maybe you will later on."  I would expect people in the hifi hobby to spit on anything that actually shows significant change in a short period of time, for it would be clear evidence of the absence of fidelity. but for some reason I don't get, it ends up just being another trend and you're not audiophile if you don't talk about how good stuff sound after 200hours without a hint of an evidence that the sound actually changed in a significant way. only beliefs from uncontrolled listening.
     
    gregorio likes this.
  7. CADCAM
    Dude do you actually read what you type? Chicken legs and vampires? That's what comes to mind...
    See now if I close my eyes tightly (but not too tightly) I can almost see your system...the white lamp cord speaker cables bathed in buzzing fluorescent lighting as your speakers, slammed against the back wall wheeze their way through "All That She Wants" and you with that sly grin lean back and think...perfection. 
    Just joking btw I would hope you have decent system in your listening room. I will say I'm not trying the chicken leg thing though. I'm ordering some new cables and will seriously consider it before adding the cryogenic treatment. Thanks for all your input. Carry on!
     
  8. Giogio
    I believe in burn in.
    And in true love.
    I just could not find yet a way to prove the existence of any of them.
    Specially true love.
    I've tried to listen long enough but it was not enough.
    There was always a moment when I had to speak, and that was generally the end.
    The only headphone which I'm sure was a bit burned in is the ATH-WS99BT.
    I'm sure, because the new unit I got sounds like I remember the old sounded at the beginning, and the old sounds better.
    So I'm sure it's not just that I got used.
    But I have another headphone (which I don't use too much so maybe that's the problem) which sounds veiled to me, and I was told this improves with time.
    I'm still waiting.

    I think burn in is like love.
    It's not predictable, and may happen more or less or not at all, and you have limited influence on the process and so creating rituals is cool and it's what we nerds do but its scientific utility is IMO questionable.

    BTW I think you were in the mood for fight, because I don't see any problem in their comments.
    Castle has just a direct and sarcastic way of speaking.
    That's not the same as offending.
    I know because I'm worse than him but I repress it.
    And I know I never want to offend.
    I just wouldn't mind if anybody would do that with me, so I do it with other people.
    It keeps threads more alive. When one spends enough time on a forum, he needs to create diversions.

    But being in a mood for fight is cool too. Temporarily.
     
  9. CADCAM
    Come on I think I took everything pretty well...did you smile even a little at my description of the system? Come on man give me something...
    I clicked on the link for pics of you naked but got nothing...
     
  10. Giogio
    Well, I always smile when I see somebody doing things I've done :)
    And I can see Castle in buzzing fluo light.
    I'm pretty sure he did experiment with cryogenic already.
    That's why a part of him got frozen and he became sarcastic.
    We should try next 1 April changing his fluo light (pretty sure is black light) with a UV one and see if the warmth burns him in a bit. Or out, uaaahg ahg ahg ahg!
     
  11. Giogio
    SSH, thanks for warning, must have been the anti pandaphilia police.
    I'll upload again from the computer of my friends so they'll get eventual legal problems.
     
  12. castleofargh Contributor
    now playing ace of base. it's been too long. 
    "so many people are running  round &round, without any sense of logic.
    I see liiiiiiies in the eyes of the stranger, ohoh..."
     
    that would make for a nice sound science intro ^_^.
     
     
    off topic( because obviously what's above was on topic[​IMG]):
    @Giogio there seems to be people who expect internet to be the real world in all points, and people who see internet as the one place where you don't have to behave like in real life. I came to internet mostly with online games, IRC etc, so of course when everybody was apparently having intercourse with my mum and decided I was gay, my perspective on politically correct did shift quite a bit. I actually make a lot of efforts on headfi(even if it might no be that obvious). on a french audio forum where speech isn't too controlled, and being offended, not yet a national sport(but coming fast), I'm often a real dick TBH, and it has way less impact than me being sarcastic in here. just coming from different cultures make us have different social behavior standards. also learning english from movies, songs, and internet might have some unforseen results at times. I've been super offencive twice(that I know of) on headfi without any idea I was, thinking the expressions used meant something else... [​IMG]. too much HBO, not enough CBS.
     
     
     
    modo mod ON:
     enough off topic now, sound science is seriouz biznezz.
     
     
    (multiple personalities are hard to handle, even more so when one is a troll and the other a modo).
     
  13. Giogio
    Oh I know something about coming from a temperamental Country and living in a diplomatic one.
    I understand you well.
    I was told I would enjoy being in France but I'm not in the mood for Camembert and for another language.

    Next time you troll around I'll report you to your bright side (as you like Monty).

    Let me finish this Comparison now. Last two playlists and I'm off.
     
  14. Headmate
    In my opinion, Burn in actually works. I cant prove it, but my LCD-2's definitely sound much better after 10 hours of usage.
     
    Buy any new product, let it be a car, headphone or amp. Basically anything moving will need a little time settling in, after which it works optimal [​IMG]
     
  15. Ruben123

    But it's exactly that, an opinion. If you had measured it, it would be definitively something else :)
     
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