[ounkchicago]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koto-in /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is not bi-amping. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-amping

I stand corrected. Thank you koto.

True, the Creek headphone amp, like most desktop headphone amps, have an output (pass-through).

 

[ounkchicago]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noseallinit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I doubt the Creek OBH-21SE would even have to be turned on for the Audioengine A5 speakers to receive the signal in this setup. this will keep him from having to plug and unplug his interconnects to go between the Creek OBH-21SE and the Audioengine A5 speakers with only one ouput on his CA 640c(v2). and better than running the signal out of his headphone output. the Loop Out is intended to send the source signal to another amp, receiver, etc.. why not a set of active speakers.

Indeed, the above setup would be the manufacturer's recommended setup. Once I am done horsing around, I will probably buy an additional set of RCA-RCA cables and wire it up the way you suggested, using the RCA-out from the headphone amp.

Nevertheless, I am still curious (although now somewhat cautious) about whether there would be any potential benefits of twice amplifying the signal of the CDP in order to take advantage of the better quality amplification from the headphone amp as compared to the amplification in the self-powered speakers.

On a somewhat related note, I've always wondered whether the same principle applies to connecting a headphone amp to the headphone out jack of a source rather than the line-out. I have tried this in the past with my iPod Nano 1G, but was displeased with the resulting sound quality. But the idea is still the same -- the Nano is still amplifying the signal to a headphone level, and then the headphone amp is amplifying it once again. This setup has the same issue with the self-powered speaker setup -- there are two volume controls and a potential for sub-optimal volume settings. Any thoughts?

 

[koto-in]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ounkchicago /img/forum/go_quote.gif Indeed, the above setup would be the manufacturer's recommended setup. Once I am done horsing around, I will probably buy an additional set of RCA-RCA cables and wire it up the way you suggested, using the RCA-out from the headphone amp. Nevertheless, I am still curious (although now somewhat cautious) about whether there would be any potential benefits of twice amplifying the signal of the CDP in order to take advantage of the better quality amplification from the headphone amp as compared to the amplification in the self-powered speakers. On a somewhat related note, I've always wondered whether the same principle applies to connecting a headphone amp to the headphone out jack of a source rather than the line-out. I have tried this in the past with my iPod Nano 1G, but was displeased with the resulting sound quality. But the idea is still the same -- the Nano is still amplifying the signal to a headphone level, and then the headphone amp is amplifying it once again. This setup has the same issue with the self-powered speaker setup -- there are two volume controls and a potential for sub-optimal volume settings. Any thoughts?

All amplifiers introduce distortion to the source audio signal. You can pay a lot of money to purchase amplifiers that reduce this distortion beyond measurable levels. You can also pay a lot of money for a passive preamplifier that is designed to attenuate the audio signal without distorting the signal.

The Creek is designed to provide sufficient power to headphones while introducing as little distortion as possible. Indeed Class A amplifiers are all about eliminating the distortion introduced by Class AB amplifiers. The goal is to get "as close to the source signal as possible." By placing the headphone amplifier in the signal path you are introducing distortion unnecessarily to the original audio signal. You will achieve no higher fidelity to the original signal than by connecting the CDP directly to the speakers.

It must also be said that based both on the quality of the Creek unit and the achievable resolution of the system as a whole, it is unlikely that any effect that the Creek might introduce to the audio signal would be audible.

 

[tbonner1]

You do lose flexibility when you use bi-amp speakers with built in amps.

1-No need for an external amp so you are stuck with the (usually solid state) amps built into the speakers.

2-You are also stuck with the speakers and cannot experiment.

 

[noseallinit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbonner1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You do lose flexibility when you use bi-amp speakers with built in amps. 1-No need for an external amp so you are stuck with the (usually solid state) amps built into the speakers. 2-You are also stuck with the speakers and cannot experiment.

very true!

but they are also a nice solution for limited space were small footprints are needed.

I'd like to have a set of good bi-amped studio monitors with me computer and a headphone amp(HR Desktop).

currently I have me NAD Receiver sitting above me iMac with my Polks paired off to the side on stands. it works very well! my iMac feeds me MicroDAC, me MicroDAC feeds me NAD and me NAD feeds me MicroAmp. my NAD has two sets of tape monitors which allows me to use it as a switch between sources for me headphone amp. kinda nice and something the studio monitors would not allow without an extra component thrown in.

 

[ounkchicago]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koto-in /img/forum/go_quote.gif All amplifiers introduce distortion to the source audio signal. You can pay a lot of money to purchase amplifiers that reduce this distortion beyond measurable levels. You can also pay a lot of money for a passive preamplifier that is designed to attenuate the audio signal without distorting the signal. The Creek is designed to provide sufficient power to headphones while introducing as little distortion as possible. Indeed Class A amplifiers are all about eliminating the distortion introduced by Class AB amplifiers. The goal is to get "as close to the source signal as possible." By placing the headphone amplifier in the signal path you are introducing distortion unnecessarily to the original audio signal. You will achieve no higher fidelity to the original signal than by connecting the CDP directly to the speakers. It must also be said that based both on the quality of the Creek unit and the achievable resolution of the system as a whole, it is unlikely that any effect that the Creek might introduce to the audio signal would be audible.

I see your point. Indeed I am aware that all amps introduce distortion. I was wondering at first whether this distortion may be worthwhile in terms of other benefits. But after some testing I have decided that it's not, and I'd be hard pressed to find a case where it was.

I rewired my CDP the correct way:

CDP --> Creek Amp --> AudioEngine A5 speakers

... and now I am thoroughly enjoying the CDP through both speakers and headphone. Indeed it was completely unnecessary to try plugging in the speakers into the headphone out of the Creek, but it was a fun experiment. So now everything is wired correctly and it gives me piece of mind knowing that I won't damage any of the equipment.

Incidentally, I cannot detect any audible difference between plugging the A5 speakers into the Creek headphone jack, or wiring it correctly using the RCA outs, other than the fact that the volume control becomes extremely fussy in the twice-amped setup. I suppose this is some evidence that the Creek amp is decent quality, but I'll withhold judgment until I am able to test it against some other sub-$500 SS amps.