[ben_r_]

Anyone had a chance to compare the Schiit Lyr 1 or 2 to the mini-X A-100 with the HE-500s?

 

[kmitschiener]

Anyone here tried the recommended cheap connection system with the Audeze LCD-2F?

 

[Synthax]

Someone could please recommend resistor configuration for LCD2F with 2A3 Set amplifier?

 

[MalVeauX]

  Anyone had a chance to compare the Schiit Lyr 1 or 2 to the mini-X A-100 with the HE-500s?

 
Heya,
 
I did, bought the Lyr twice actually. Sold it each time. It's a good amp, but it's not a tube amp, it's powerful for sure, but ultimately I just wasn't impressed with it for the $350~400 price tag with it lacking a lot of additional features (at the time Lyr 1 for me, these days, I'd be more interested in the Valhalla 2, but I'm a fan of tubes as well as solid state). The HE500 on the MiniX sounds different than it does on the Lyr to me. It's not a big difference, but overall I just felt like the MiniX was more transparent, sound stage was similar but felt a little more right to me, and the overall dynamics just seemed so realistic and natural that I couldn't move past it. I look at the cost of the Lyr now and I absolutely have no regrets that for the same cost, I was able to get the MiniX and an adapter and use the HE500 that way.
 
I'm still using the Mini-X right now with my HE500's with the custom cable from BTG Audio, using the speaker tap adapter still to this day, everything holding up strong and sounding so good. I still use the Maverick Audio TubeMagic D2 as my DAC to get that tube pre-amp stage involved with the Mini-X and it gives me my tubiness without having to bother with low powered tubes for planars.
 
Very best,

 

[Synthax]

   
 
 It's a good amp, but it's not a tube amp.

 +

 

[davidsh]

I've used the mini-x for my headphones exclusively for more than a year. I use it with a diy resistor box. Works fine. My mini-x seems slightly sensitive to poor power though. When my mom is sewing it sounds like a series of loud ticks in my headphones

 

[jasonb]

I'm still using my AKG Q701 straight out of the speaker taps of my MiniX A-100. I'm using -6db software preamp with the EqualizerAPO program and still have to be extremely careful with the volume knob. The volume knob is below the 9 o'clock position almost all the time and is obviously very sensitive. It sounds so very good though. There is a very very slight hiss that is there, but still quieter than the fan inside my laptop so it's pointless to fuss over it anyway. I will continue to use this setup and have no desire to get a dedicated headphone amp. This amp pulls double duty and also powers my nearfield Pioneer speakers too. Just switch out a few banana plugs to go from speakers to headphones or vise versa and switch the software EQ on my laptop and I'm good to go.

 

[davidsh]

I got parallel out on my resistor box to my stax srd-6 energiser, which has a switch for speakers or earspeakers, very neat.

 

[badkundi]

I've been using the Mini-X with my HE-500's and 600ohm Beyer DT 990 premiums for over a year now, and have found them both to be great sounding, especially the HE-500's. For me the Mini-X sounds as good as both the Lyr and Lyr2 but not particularly better.I feel that overall sound quality is about the same. About 4 months ago I got bitten by the upgrade bug and fancied going fully balanced with the HE-500's. I wanted to get my hands on a Mjolnir but this proved almost impossible in the UK at the time. Everywhere was out of stock. I decided do do something different!! My front end CD/DAC/PRE is an Audiolab 8200 CDQ which has both single ended and balanced outputs. The balanced outputs were not being used in my main system, so I ordered an Audiolab M-PWR power amp which has both single ended and balanced inputs. These amps are rated at 40w / channel into 8ohms and retail in the UK at £499. I managed to get mine for £299 in sale ( total bargain )
Anyway hooked up the amp in balanced mode with HE-500's and speaker taps and let it rip. WOW!!!! After about an hour or so warming up it was already plainly obvious that this amp was performing in a different league altogether than the Mini-X. Detail, separation, sounds age, and bass tightness + impact all were improved considerably. 4 months on and all I can say is that this is one sweet sounding combo. It sets such a realistic music stage in your head with a little bit of that tube euphoria that you don't expect from solid state. It took some time for the amp to settle in properly but it was worth the wait. The only slight critisism I have is that it is not last word in soundstage height, but good width and depth for HE-500's. I'm so glad that I took the gamble because the results are even better than what I was looking for, overall. My next experiment will be with the LCD-2's when they arrive.

 

[ThurstonX]

 

[KeithEmo]

Using the Mini-X.... with headphones.... with resistors.... or not.
 
First, the Mini-X will be perfectly happy running with an adapter that uses a single ground (the two channels use the same ground and you can connect them together at the output).
 
Second, there is no reason why you would HAVE to use anything other than an adapter consisting of simple wires (with no resistors). However, depending on your headphones, you might want to.
 
In general, a pair of headphones really is just a pair of speakers; but most headphones are a somewhat unusual pair of speakers. Among other things, most speakers are somewhere between 4 ohms and 8 ohms, have a much lower sensitivity (relatively), and can handle much more power (again, relatively). Speaker amps also typically differ from headphone amps in several ways. Speaker amps tend to be more powerful, they tend to have a higher noise floor (if a speaker amp has a S/N the same as a headphone amp, but puts out 100x more power, then it will also generate 100x as much noise floor - simple math there), and they tend to have a higher damping factor. Compared to speaker amps, headphone amps are typically quieter and much lower powered.
 
Now, here's how this relates to different types of headphones......
 
Very low efficiency planar headphones - These are pretty much like speakers, have similar needs, and should work well when connected to a speaker amp using an adapter without resistors. Just like speakers, they want lots of power; just like speakers, since they're relatively low in efficiency, they aren't that fussy about noise floor; and, just like speakers, they'll like the high amount of damping they get from a direct amplifier connection. (And these won't generally work well when connected to ordinary headphone amps because most headphone amps don't deliver nearly enough power to run them well.)
 
Moderately high efficiency "normal" headphones - These should work fine with most speaker amps, but you MIGHT want to have resistors in your adapter for several reasons. First off, since speaker amps tend to have a higher noise floor (in absolute numbers - even if not in S/N), you're more likely to hear the noise floor on even a moderately quiet speaker amp. Voltage divider resistors in the adapter lower both the output level and the noise floor (equally). Adding resistors will lower the damping factor, but most ordinary headphones, while they like a reasonable damping factor, are quite satisfied with one that's only moderately low. (An output impedance of a few ohms will still give you a damping factor of 20 with 50 ohms phones, which should be OK.)
 
There is one concern, though. Normal headphones, while they are basically speakers, are speakers whose power rating is in MILLIWATTS. This means that, if you connect them straight to the speaker terminals of a moderately powerful amplifier, and forget to turn the level down when you switch inputs, or something like that, you will risk burning out the headphones (or frying your ears). Likewise, if the amp itself, or any upstream components, tends to click or pop when you turn it on and off, or drop the needle, you're going to have to be very careful with that level control. It's like driving around your neighborhood in a racing car - you need to be a little bit careful - and tapping the pedal just a touch too hard can put you in your neighbor's flowerbed. 
 
Super-high-efficiency headphones and IEMs - Because headphones are attached directly to your head, and IEMs go right in your ear, they tend to be very sensitive to noise. This is especially true for super-efficient ones. (They're also very easy to drive, so there's not much reason to connect them to a speaker amp anyway.) So, if you do connect very sensitive phones to a speaker amp, than you probably do want an adapter with resistors to drop the level (and the noise). There are VERY few speaker amps that would be quiet enough to connect to 100 dB efficient IEMs directly. NOTE that the efficiency ratings on headphones are far different than those for speakers (they're in dB/MILLIWATT and not dB/WATT).
 
High-impedance headphones - High impedance headphones don't seem to be very well understood by most people. Because they're high impedance, they are actually one of the EASIEST loads to drive electrically; the reason most headphone amps have trouble with them is because they need lots of VOLTAGE to drive them, which most headphone amps can't deliver. Depending on their efficiency, high impedance phones are actually a good candidate to be driven by a speaker amp (a speaker amp can put out plenty of voltage).
 
However, there are two things you need to keep in mind when driving them from vintage equipment (or adapters). First, some few vintage amps don't like being run into a load that's much "lighter" than a speaker. This is also true for many tube amps, which may not work well at all if you connect a wildly different load to an output tap than it expects, or which may have a somewhat odd frequency response (or ringing, or other odd things) if you so. In those cases, a special adapter that provides the amp with a load that it likes may be a good idea.
 
The other thing you need to know is that the headphone outputs on a lot of vintage equipment use a single series resistor rather than a voltage divider. These outputs will act differently than you expect with high impedance phones. (For example, a 300 ohm series output resistor would reduce the output by as much as 30 or 40 dB or so with 32 ohm phones, but will barely reduce it by 6 dB with 600 ohms phones. But that 300 ohm series resistor will reduce the DAMPING FACTOR on those 32 ohm phones to 0.1. In other words, how a series resistor acts will depend to a huge degree on what load you connect to it.
 
In general, a series resistor ALWAYS makes the damping factor a lot lower (although it's not as bad with high-impedance phones), while a properly designed voltage divider can be used to reduce the level, and can be designed to still allow you to have a reasonably good damping factor (even with low impedance phones). To optimize this, you MUST choose the values for your voltage divider to match the impedance of your headphones, and the trade-off will be different if you connect phones with a different impedance to a given voltage divider.

 

[KeithEmo]

   
Heya,
 
I did, bought the Lyr twice actually. Sold it each time. It's a good amp, but it's not a tube amp, it's powerful for sure, but ultimately I just wasn't impressed with it for the $350~400 price tag with it lacking a lot of additional features (at the time Lyr 1 for me, these days, I'd be more interested in the Valhalla 2, but I'm a fan of tubes as well as solid state). The HE500 on the MiniX sounds different than it does on the Lyr to me. It's not a big difference, but overall I just felt like the MiniX was more transparent, sound stage was similar but felt a little more right to me, and the overall dynamics just seemed so realistic and natural that I couldn't move past it. I look at the cost of the Lyr now and I absolutely have no regrets that for the same cost, I was able to get the MiniX and an adapter and use the HE500 that way.
 
I'm still using the Mini-X right now with my HE500's with the custom cable from BTG Audio, using the speaker tap adapter still to this day, everything holding up strong and sounding so good. I still use the Maverick Audio TubeMagic D2 as my DAC to get that tube pre-amp stage involved with the Mini-X and it gives me my tubiness without having to bother with low powered tubes for planars.
 
Very best,

 
The Lyr is a hybrid amp. It has a solid state output stage, and so has high damping, but gets some tube sound from its tube gain stages. The Mini-X is a pure solid state amp, and so adds no tube coloration to the sound. (So you should expect them to sound quite different.)

 

[ThurstonX]

  Using the Mini-X.... with headphones.... with resistors.... or not.
 
First, the Mini-X will be perfectly happy running with an adapter that uses a single ground (the two channels use the same ground and you can connect them together at the output).
 
Second, there is no reason why you would HAVE to use anything other than an adapter consisting of simple wires (with no resistors). However, depending on your headphones, you might want to.
 
In general, a pair of headphones really is just a pair of speakers; but most headphones are a somewhat unusual pair of speakers. Among other things, most speakers are somewhere between 4 ohms and 8 ohms, have a much lower sensitivity (relatively), and can handle much more power (again, relatively). Speaker amps also typically differ from headphone amps in several ways. Speaker amps tend to be more powerful, they tend to have a higher noise floor (if a speaker amp has a S/N the same as a headphone amp, but puts out 100x more power, then it will also generate 100x as much noise floor - simple math there), and they tend to have a higher damping factor. Compared to speaker amps, headphone amps are typically quieter and much lower powered.
 

Spoiler: the rest of the post

Now, here's how this relates to different types of headphones......
 
Very low efficiency planar headphones - These are pretty much like speakers, have similar needs, and should work well when connected to a speaker amp using an adapter without resistors. Just like speakers, they want lots of power; just like speakers, since they're relatively low in efficiency, they aren't that fussy about noise floor; and, just like speakers, they'll like the high amount of damping they get from a direct amplifier connection. (And these won't generally work well when connected to ordinary headphone amps because most headphone amps don't deliver nearly enough power to run them well.)
 
Moderately high efficiency "normal" headphones - These should work fine with most speaker amps, but you MIGHT want to have resistors in your adapter for several reasons. First off, since speaker amps tend to have a higher noise floor (in absolute numbers - even if not in S/N), you're more likely to hear the noise floor on even a moderately quiet speaker amp. Voltage divider resistors in the adapter lower both the output level and the noise floor (equally). Adding resistors will lower the damping factor, but most ordinary headphones, while they like a reasonable damping factor, are quite satisfied with one that's only moderately low. (An output impedance of a few ohms will still give you a damping factor of 20 with 50 ohms phones, which should be OK.)
 
There is one concern, though. Normal headphones, while they are basically speakers, are speakers whose power rating is in MILLIWATTS. This means that, if you connect them straight to the speaker terminals of a moderately powerful amplifier, and forget to turn the level down when you switch inputs, or something like that, you will risk burning out the headphones (or frying your ears). Likewise, if the amp itself, or any upstream components, tends to click or pop when you turn it on and off, or drop the needle, you're going to have to be very careful with that level control. It's like driving around your neighborhood in a racing car - you need to be a little bit careful - and tapping the pedal just a touch too hard can put you in your neighbor's flowerbed. 
 
Super-high-efficiency headphones and IEMs - Because headphones are attached directly to your head, and IEMs go right in your ear, they tend to be very sensitive to noise. This is especially true for super-efficient ones. (They're also very easy to drive, so there's not much reason to connect them to a speaker amp anyway.) So, if you do connect very sensitive phones to a speaker amp, than you probably do want an adapter with resistors to drop the level (and the noise). There are VERY few speaker amps that would be quiet enough to connect to 100 dB efficient IEMs directly. NOTE that the efficiency ratings on headphones are far different than those for speakers (they're in dB/MILLIWATT and not dB/WATT).
 
High-impedance headphones - High impedance headphones don't seem to be very well understood by most people. Because they're high impedance, they are actually one of the EASIEST loads to drive electrically; the reason most headphone amps have trouble with them is because they need lots of VOLTAGE to drive them, which most headphone amps can't deliver. Depending on their efficiency, high impedance phones are actually a good candidate to be driven by a speaker amp (a speaker amp can put out plenty of voltage).
 
However, there are two things you need to keep in mind when driving them from vintage equipment (or adapters). First, some few vintage amps don't like being run into a load that's much "lighter" than a speaker. This is also true for many tube amps, which may not work well at all if you connect a wildly different load to an output tap than it expects, or which may have a somewhat odd frequency response (or ringing, or other odd things) if you so. In those cases, a special adapter that provides the amp with a load that it likes may be a good idea.
 
The other thing you need to know is that the headphone outputs on a lot of vintage equipment use a single series resistor rather than a voltage divider. These outputs will act differently than you expect with high impedance phones. (For example, a 300 ohm series output resistor would reduce the output by as much as 30 or 40 dB or so with 32 ohm phones, but will barely reduce it by 6 dB with 600 ohms phones. But that 300 ohm series resistor will reduce the DAMPING FACTOR on those 32 ohm phones to 0.1. In other words, how a series resistor acts will depend to a huge degree on what load you connect to it.
 
In general, a series resistor ALWAYS makes the damping factor a lot lower (although it's not as bad with high-impedance phones), while a properly designed voltage divider can be used to reduce the level, and can be designed to still allow you to have a reasonably good damping factor (even with low impedance phones). To optimize this, you MUST choose the values for your voltage divider to match the impedance of your headphones, and the trade-off will be different if you connect phones with a different impedance to a given voltage divider.

 

 
Thanks for that, Keith.  I hope you won't mind addressing a couple questions.
 
While I'm waiting for my Fusion Flex to arrive, I've been thinking about the best way to connect various headphones.  For the two HiFiMAN cans (HE-500s [~34 ohms; Efficiency: 89 dB] and the slightly harder to drive HE-560s [~50 ohms; Efficiency: 90 dB]) I was planning on a simple adapter.  Other cans I might connect are AKG Q 701s (62 ohms; Sensitivity: 105 dB SPL/V).  I'm also considering a speaker selector, mostly for convenience, but I'm not sure how it would affect the overall sound for attached cans.  In particular I'm looking at a used Sonance SS4, Niles SPS-4 or a Monster SS4.  They all employ a manually-engaged protection circuit.  The Sonance, e.g., uses a "Resistive in-line" circuit.  I imagine the others do the same.
 
For normal speaker operation with only a single pair active at any given time, the protection circuit would not/should not be engaged, per the manual.  If I'm reading correctly the manual and what you wrote about in-line resistors, I could engage the protection circuit (or not) to see what affect it has on the various headphones attached.  I'm curious if the protection circuit is not engaged, is the selector just acting as another set of passive "wires" between the Fusion Flex and the speakers or headphones... in other words, would it be worth spending $20-$30 for a used selector, or should I just plan on swapping banana plugs when I want to switch between cans and speakers?
 
That's the main question.  I realize a specific answer is not really possible without knowing the details of the speaker selector, but a general answer would be much appreciated.

 

[KeithEmo]

   
Thanks for that, Keith.  I hope you won't mind addressing a couple questions.
 
While I'm waiting for my Fusion Flex to arrive, I've been thinking about the best way to connect various headphones.  For the two HiFiMAN cans (HE-500s [~34 ohms; Efficiency: 89 dB] and the slightly harder to drive HE-560s [~50 ohms; Efficiency: 90 dB]) I was planning on a simple adapter.  Other cans I might connect are AKG Q 701s (62 ohms; Sensitivity: 105 dB SPL/V).  I'm also considering a speaker selector, mostly for convenience, but I'm not sure how it would affect the overall sound for attached cans.  In particular I'm looking at a used Sonance SS4, Niles SPS-4 or a Monster SS4.  They all employ a manually-engaged protection circuit.  The Sonance, e.g., uses a "Resistive in-line" circuit.  I imagine the others do the same.
 
For normal speaker operation with only a single pair active at any given time, the protection circuit would not/should not be engaged, per the manual.  If I'm reading correctly the manual and what you wrote about in-line resistors, I could engage the protection circuit (or not) to see what affect it has on the various headphones attached.  I'm curious if the protection circuit is not engaged, is the selector just acting as another set of passive "wires" between the Fusion Flex and the speakers or headphones... in other words, would it be worth spending $20-$30 for a used selector, or should I just plan on swapping banana plugs when I want to switch between cans and speakers?
 
That's the main question.  I realize a specific answer is not really possible without knowing the details of the speaker selector, but a general answer would be much appreciated.

 
For the HiFiMan's you should be fine with a direct connection.
 
I suspect you might notice a little hiss if you connect the AKG's directly to the output of ANY speaker amp - because they are very high efficiency phones. I would be inclined to use a voltage divider with them (although, of course, it wouldn't hurt to try for yourself.) If you try a voltage divider, I would possibly suggest using 47 ohms for the "top" resistor and 4.7 ohms for the resistor to ground. That should be a good compromise of dropping the signal and noise, but not by too much, getting you a damping factor of 15 or so, and not requiring especially large power resistors (1/2 watt ones should be fine). Without the voltage divider you're also going to have to be VERY careful with level. (They're going to get really loud really fast when you start raising that volume setting. For that reason alone, I think I would stick with a voltage divider with them.)
 
The sort of "manual protection circuit" you're likely to see in a speaker switch is likely to be something like 2 ohm or 4 ohm resistors put in series with each speaker. This shouldn't hurt anything, but also isn't going to reduce the level significantly with headphones. (A 2 ohm or 4 ohm resistor in series with a 4 ohm speaker makes a huge difference, but it won't make much difference in series with a 60 ohm headphone). You absolutely want to avoid any sort of "automatic protection circuitry" - which is likely to be some sort of limiter - and which could work horribly or not at all with headphones, and could introduce assorted weird distortions if it's some sort of passive compressor or limiter.
 
I would maybe consider a simple manual switch. Or, if you don't mind swapping banana plugs, you could use a straight one for your less efficient phones, and a different set, with voltage dividers, for the AKGs (you could just leave each adapter connected to the phones it goes with if you're going to be plugging and unplugging banana plugs anyway).

 

[ThurstonX]

  For the HiFiMan's you should be fine with a direct connection.
 
I suspect you might notice a little hiss if you connect the AKG's directly to the output of ANY speaker amp - because they are very high efficiency phones. I would be inclined to use a voltage divider with them (although, of course, it wouldn't hurt to try for yourself.) If you try a voltage divider, I would possibly suggest using 47 ohms for the "top" resistor and 4.7 ohms for the resistor to ground. That should be a good compromise of dropping the signal and noise, but not by too much, getting you a damping factor of 15 or so, and not requiring especially large power resistors (1/2 watt ones should be fine). Without the voltage divider you're also going to have to be VERY careful with level. (They're going to get really loud really fast when you start raising that volume setting. For that reason alone, I think I would stick with a voltage divider with them.)
 
The sort of "manual protection circuit" you're likely to see in a speaker switch is likely to be something like 2 ohm or 4 ohm resistors put in series with each speaker. This shouldn't hurt anything, but also isn't going to reduce the level significantly with headphones. (A 2 ohm or 4 ohm resistor in series with a 4 ohm speaker makes a huge difference, but it won't make much difference in series with a 60 ohm headphone). You absolutely want to avoid any sort of "automatic protection circuitry" - which is likely to be some sort of limiter - and which could work horribly or not at all with headphones, and could introduce assorted weird distortions if it's some sort of passive compressor or limiter.
 
I would maybe consider a simple manual switch. Or, if you don't mind swapping banana plugs, you could use a straight one for your less efficient phones, and a different set, with voltage dividers, for the AKGs (you could just leave each adapter connected to the phones it goes with if you're going to be plugging and unplugging banana plugs anyway).

 
Thanks for the quick reply.  Understood re: a voltage divider for the AKGs.  Sounds like a good DIY project.  For the selector, initially I was looking for a manual switch, but one with banana plugs.  The best I found was a DIY job on another forum, so that might be fun to build.  Until then, swapping plugs is no big deal.