HDCD with computer and EMU0404... possible?

[spinneresque]

Hi, can someone please clear up this simple question for me? I have a mac that can also run windows, so either kind of software would be fine. Can I listen to an HDCD *with* the "HD" using my computer and the EMU? If so, how?

thanks~!

 

[Jaska]

You'll need to run Windows and use Windows Media Player to decode HDCD. I'm not aware of any OS X programs capable of decoding HDCD. You'll also need to sift through a few menus in WMP to enable 24-bit playback if your sound card supports it.

If that isn't worth the trouble, then at least HDCDs ripped to lossless files still sound better (at least to me) than rips from ordinary audio CDs.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

then at least HDCDs ripped to lossless files still sound better

To get HDCD, you need a decoder. If you take digital out from your soundcard to a HDCD capable DAC, and send unaltered (not replygained) audio the HDCD LED should light up. Not many HDCD DAC's around, nor for HDCD discs. Only one I have is Dire Straights, does sound good through my HDCD DAC. Brother has a HDCD capable CDP.

 

[spinneresque]

Thanks both of you. I'm a Grateful Dead person and the official releases are all done in HDCD and lots of 24bit 'unofficial' recordings are available as well. I know that quicktime can play 24 bit files.... Anyway, the point is to me it is definitely worth the trouble. I believe the EMU supports 24 bit? Then

First method: if I take an optical cable from the line out of my computer and run it into the SPDIF input on my emu, will the 'main' output be putting out the HDCD?

Second: I put the hdcd disc into my drive, use windows media player to decode the files into 24 bit individual.... WAV files? Then play them from my computer.

I really want to understand this and all of these computer-audio elements so thanks for your patience. You might have to break it down a bit more for me. Additionally if anyone can recommend a doc that explains these matters including SPDIF, etc. in relatively easy to understand terms, I would be grateful.

I love head-fi.

 

[iriverdude]

You may have to pay for a HDCD decoder plugin or it's own media player application, that's the most likely thing I can think of for PC playback. Like buying Power DVD, since it has mpeg-ii decoder license.

Tag Mclaren DAC20 is a HDCD capable DAC.

 

[emmodad]

hi, i'm rather ill so apologies but no long post. search my posts here and on hoffman forums (keywords emmodad HDCD, some posts are in threads not tilted with HDCD) for a fair amount of info.

short n sweet: WMP will work (only while playing a physical CD), it will not decode from ripped files

hdcd.exe will decode only the amplitude-processing functions of HDCD from ripped files; hdcd.exe does not perform the dynamic filter switching which provides key sonic benefits of HDCD

there are many posts in these fora, as well as hydrogenaudio, by folk looking to decode HDCD on a computer

one word of caution: as MS has been marginalizing HDCD for audio purposes, it is not clear (no source seems to have confirmed from any published info) if WMP latest version still performs full HDCD decoding (ie the reconstruction filter switching), or only the amplitude-related decdode functions

hth

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif To get HDCD, you need a decoder.

Understood. I still think that HDCDs played back sans hardware/software decoding of the extra HDCD information sound better than normal audio CDs. That's how I discovered HDCD years ago, when I simply couldn't believe how much better my Greendale (Neil Young) album sounded compared to all my other CDs.

I also own most of the Grateful Dead HDCDs, and it's very easy to tell the ripped lossless files apart from lossless files ripped from the original non-HDCD releases.

Back on topic... I think decoding HDCDs with a computer-based setup is pretty tricky when an outboard DAC and headphone amp are involved. I don't have the EMU, but I personally would use WMP's software decoding and then output the signal via RCA cables to the DAC/amp to avoid passing on a digital signal to a device without HDCD decoding support. For proper HDCD decoding in a normal home setup, only the CD player or the amplifer would need HDCD decoding support, not both. And if the CD player decodes HDCD, the usual recommendation is to make an analog connection to the amplifier. In the case that the amplifier offers HDCD decoding, but not the CD player, then a digital signal needs to be passed from the CD player to the amplifer.

 

[feckn_eejit]

The Pacific Microsonics units used in mastering were of very high quality at the time. This is most of why HDCDs sound good, less to do with the HDCD process itself... I actually find HDCDs sound worse than normal CDs when not played back decoded properly... first of all you are losing one bit of resolution to the HDCD encoding and we could go on from there... dithering algorithms like Apogee's UV22HR and Sony's Super Bit Mapping mean everyone can enjoy the best 16/44.1 has to offer without shafting those of us without a proprietary decoding system...

With a HDCD DAC, decoding HDCD (whether from CD or lossless rip) played from a computer is easy peasy as long as you can get bit-perfect output (basically requires ASIO on Windows, Just Works in Mac OS when configured correctly)... even works with Apple's Airport Express!

Trying to use WMP inside a VM on OS X on the other hand...now you have got to make sure the audio driver windows uses for the VM will pass 24 bit... and that parallels will pass 24 bit to Core Audio... and that Core Audio is set up to output 24 bit in the "Audio MIDI Setup" app... Running Windows natively "boot camp" style should make things easy peasy. I'd try (and have done so successfully in the past...) to re-capture the output somehow into a 24-bit WAV file so it can be played back without the hassle.

 

[iriverdude]

Playing back flac encode Dire Straights on my Squeezebox 3 to my Tag DAC works, just disable replygain, or remove RG values from any HDCD albums.

 

[leeperry]

you can rip the CD w/ EAC, and then decode the HDCD data to 24bit WAV w/ eac3to or hdcd.exe

or better, dbpoweramp can directly rip the CD to 24bit FLAC containing the HDCD data I think

I also find the HDCD tracks better than regular CDDA, but don't be fooled into comparing to the CDDA track on the HDCD disc....because it's not 16bit! more like 14

but well, if you can get WMP to output bit-perfect(there's some ASIO/WASAPI plugins I think) you might as well just play your HDCD there.

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif don't be fooled into comparing to the CDDA track on the HDCD disc....because it's not 16bit! more like 14

Yep, I'm an HDCD fool then

I've read countless times about the scientific/mathematical approach to determining how "normal" CD audio sounds when played back from HDCDs or from lossless files ripped from HDCDs without HDCD decoding support, and I don't put much stock in the information. For most of the HDCDs I own, I also own the non-HDCD CD, and with the Grateful Dead albums, I've had some of these for almost 20 years. I won't argue the point of whether or not HDCDs and/or the lossless files ripped from them sound better anymore here, as there is just no beating "science." I let my ears decide for me, and if my first couple of replacement Grateful Dead albums didn't sound any better to me, I surely wouldn't have kept buying them.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yep, I'm an HDCD fool then

well apparently, they've used the top 2 bits to put "dithered" audio data to go 20bit...so the HDCD portion is indeed 20bit dithered, but the CDDA track is 14bit or so.

I've got the "in the court of king crimson" HDCD, the HDCD portion sounds fantastic! the voice reverbs sound better than 16bit IMHO, very natural...but they used the original 2" master tape to make that CD, so of course it sounds better than all the previous editions

but the CDDA portion is terrible, overly compressed and agressive...almost sounds like 12bit

all in all that HDCD is a major rip off for regular consumers, they have no way to decode the HDCD track and end up w/ sub-par CDDA

 

[spinneresque]

Ok I am still digesting all of your helpful answers. For now: Ideally I would like to have converted files that are hard drive storable and moveable, NOT having to rely on the physical discs themselves. So if I use software to properly convert the files, all I have to do is get an amp or DAC that can handle this format and then I can play them from my computer or even... ipod with line-out? into the compatible amp or DAC via analog/RCA cables. Am I right?

I have previously converted 24 bit files into AIFFS with my usual SHN converter, XACT. The AIFF files they made were huge so I'm assuming they kept all the relevant information. If I am understanding correctly, the validity of these files would depend on whether or not they were *encoded* properly into shn/flac from the hdcd/original source.

Am I on the right track? And if anyone can name a budget-y DAC or AMP that would serve this purpose I would be very grateful....

Also, since HDCD.exe is lacking in its ability to fullly decode, is WMP the definitive and only choice for the software decoding?

And, are we sure the EMU doesn't have this ability? If not I'm looking for a hundred-dollarish answer.

 

[spinneresque]

I just had a crrraaaaazy idea. I have an Edirol R-09, which records in 24 bit and has a line-in. If I ran the analog signal into the line-in and out the headphone jack, I wonder if that would work?? I know I'd be losing a bit with all the mini plugs, but still....... hmm....

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinneresque /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks both of you. I'm a Grateful Dead person

GDTRFB!

Quote:

and the official releases are all done in HDCD and lots of 24bit 'unofficial' recordings are available as well. I know that quicktime can play 24 bit files.... Anyway, the point is to me it is definitely worth the trouble. I believe the EMU supports 24 bit?

its not really worth the trouble, to be honest. there is no extra data there (imho) and the format is locked, closed and not public.

while the GD did go thru pains to try to record their work in high quality, hdcd offers nothing of value for rock music. there is almost more channel bandwidth than they used in regular redbook (again, imho).

the noise level of GD music is higher than my playback system. how on earth are you going to get 'more data' from a system that was recorded with a higher noise floor than modern/current playback systems? you can't.

don't chase bits that aren't really there or don't have non-noise data in them.

ppppppps!