[MarkSubsonik]

Hey y'all.

So I've owned my 6XX for about 2 months now and love them but I've always wanted 600's since I got to demo them from a buddy of mine. I was only able to listen for a couple of songs at the time but I'd like y'all's help with something..

I'm about to finally buy a pair of 600s and wanted to know how close in sound signature these two actually are. Do you think they are different enough that I should keep them both or should I sell my 6XX after I buy the 600s because it would be redundant? I could totally use the extra cash to let's say, purchase another set of cans so I was curious what y'all think.

Thanks in advance and happy weekend!

 

[castleofargh]

They're clearly similar headphones but we all have a favorite one between the 2. So a small difference but not small enough that people don't care about it.
You should try to find a place to try it again(maybe switch your ear pads for a more accurate comparison), and decide which one you prefer. Because it's unlikely that you'll want to keep both.

 

[MarkSubsonik]

They're clearly similar headphones but we all have a favorite one between the 2. So a small difference but not small enough that people don't care about it.
You should try to find a place to try it again(maybe switch your ear pads for a more accurate comparison), and decide which one you prefer. Because it's unlikely that you'll want to keep both.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Unfortunately, I don't have a place to demo them again so, I'm relying on feedback from y'all here. Here's a question: Bass and treble extension. Do the 600's have more of it vs. the 6XX? I absolutely LOVE vocals and like them to be up front and forward. Really focused on. I also like them to have a nice sparkle on the top end. The 6XX doesn't quite fulfill that for me so do you think the 600's will? I think in a perfect world, I'm probably better off with grabbing the 660s but that's not in the cards as of right now. I do plan on it though, eventually. Thoughts?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Unfortunately, I don't have a place to demo them again so, I'm relying on feedback from y'all here. Here's a question: Bass and treble extension. Do the 600's have more of it vs. the 6XX? I absolutely LOVE vocals and like them to be up front and forward. Really focused on. I also like them to have a nice sparkle on the top end. The 6XX doesn't quite fulfill that for me so do you think the 600's will? I think in a perfect world, I'm probably better off with grabbing the 660s but that's not in the cards as of right now. I do plan on it though, eventually. Thoughts?

Depends on how you perceive them and what HD600 you have.

Some HD600s have a 3500hz peak, which to some can sound like punishment on some parts of some vocals, or be perceived as "extension" by others. The HD650/6XX don't start getting peaks until around 9000hz I think, which is closer to real extension ie the parts which can sound too soft by how one sings as well as how human hearing can psychologically ignore frequencies beyond the midrange when there are mid tones audible can get accentuated.

At the bottom end, it's much easier to hear more bass extension on the HD6XX/650 since that goes up a bit more and starts trailing off at a lower frequency; coupled with not having the 3500hz peak on older HD600/580J, the bass down to the deepest notes is more audible.

 

[MarkSubsonik]

Depends on how you perceive them and what HD600 you have.

Some HD600s have a 3500hz peak, which to some can sound like punishment on some parts of some vocals, or be perceived as "extension" by others. The HD650/6XX don't start getting peaks until around 9000hz I think, which is closer to real extension ie the parts which can sound too soft by how one sings as well as how human hearing can psychologically ignore frequencies beyond the midrange when there are mid tones audible can get accentuated.

At the bottom end, it's much easier to hear more bass extension on the HD6XX/650 since that goes up a bit more and starts trailing off at a lower frequency; coupled with not having the 3500hz peak on older HD600/580J, the bass down to the deepest notes is more audible.

Great info, thanks so much!

 

[MarkSubsonik]

Depends on how you perceive them and what HD600 you have.

Some HD600s have a 3500hz peak, which to some can sound like punishment on some parts of some vocals, or be perceived as "extension" by others. The HD650/6XX don't start getting peaks until around 9000hz I think, which is closer to real extension ie the parts which can sound too soft by how one sings as well as how human hearing can psychologically ignore frequencies beyond the midrange when there are mid tones audible can get accentuated.

At the bottom end, it's much easier to hear more bass extension on the HD6XX/650 since that goes up a bit more and starts trailing off at a lower frequency; coupled with not having the 3500hz peak on older HD600/580J, the bass down to the deepest notes is more audible.

By the way, what do you mean by, "what HD600 you have?" Are there different versions or are you referring to like, mark 1, mark 2 etc?

 

[tomb]

Like any company who makes products for longer than a few days or weeks, new parts of higher-quality/lower cost are often discovered, or new manufacturing processes are implemented that either save cost or improve quality. This means that over time with a product whose lifespan is in years, changes occur. Sennheiser's position as the manufacturer is that these changes are not notable enough to mention to the consumer. Or, they are at the very least, not notable enough to declare a model change. You should note that Sennheiser does make model changes - all the time. So, if they make something and say nothing, that's strong evidence that they know what they are doing - at least in MHO.

Nevertheless, there are those on this forum and elsewhere that have documented appearance changes in the drivers and other parts. Tyll Hertsens is famously one of those that documented this here:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650
Some people claim that there are important differences in the way an HD600 used to sound, versus newer production models. The same is said of the HD650. I'm not sure the headphone community was as freaked out about differences back in the day of the HD580, so I'm not sure there's much on the production history of those changing over time.

Anyway, like everything around here - take it with a grain of salt, continue to research and solicit more information, but let your own ears make the final determination.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

By the way, what do you mean by, "what HD600 you have?" Are there different versions or are you referring to like, mark 1, mark 2 etc?

Some older HD600s and the HD580J measure with the 3500hz peak vs the near flat response of newer HD600s and the HD58X, and it's not merely a problem of how raw measurement by a mic is compensated for in simulating a human ear in those older graphs.

 

[MarkSubsonik]

Some older HD600s and the HD580J measure with the 3500hz peak vs the near flat response of newer HD600s and the HD58X, and it's not merely a problem of how raw measurement by a mic is compensated for in simulating a human ear in those older graphs.

Ok wow, interesting. I'd love to read more about this, do you have any links possibly?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Ok wow, interesting. I'd love to read more about this, do you have any links possibly?

Google "HD600 response graph" and look at how some of the graphs look markedly different even if you account for graph unit scaling.

 

[MarkSubsonik]

Google "HD600 response graph" and look at how some of the graphs look markedly different even if you account for graph unit scaling.

Ok cool, thanks!

 

[tomb]

 

[MarkSubsonik]

Very cool, thanks for posting! Any chance you can kind of explain what we're seeing here? What the differences are to a total newb? Thanks so much!

 

[SilverEars]

Google "HD600 response graph" and look at how some of the graphs look markedly different even if you account for graph unit scaling.

We shouldn't compare graphs from different rigs. Also, FR are not perfectly replicated, there are sample variances to slightest to more degree depending on the manufacturer. The pads generally effect the response, and who knows, between two brand new pads there may be slight differences. Also another question should be asked is, how easy or difficult to reliably place the headphone in the identical placement and condition in the measurement rig to be confident the differences were indeed due to different driver versions.

But, subjectively, I have heard a bright version and a pretty much perfect tonality 600, and this 600 was between 650 and the bright 600. I find there are differences, but there are also so many variables to deduce...

So, my impression is that 600 can sound a bit peaky or really good tonality. So, are there golden 600s?

I think using pads that has some wear cause 600 to become warmer. Which I would think to be preferred.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

We shouldn't compare graphs from different rigs. Also, FR are not perfectly replicated, there are sample variances to slightest to more degree depending on the manufacturer. The pads generally effect the response, and who knows, between two brand new pads there may be slight differences. Also another question should be asked is, how easy or difficult to reliably place the headphone in the identical placement and condition in the measurement rig to be confident the differences were indeed due to different driver versions.

I actually pointed out there that that can be a factor, but when it comes down to it

1. there's a weird variance in the measurement of the older units

2. there's also the wild fluctuations in how people perceive them, ie, some say sharp others say barely distinguishable from HD650...which barring getting the same people together together with the HD600's they tried to see if they'd still have the same assessment if they tried each others' HD600s, can be corroborating evidence that there's enough of a manufacturing variance.

3. It might not be as wide as the measurement suggests (ie up to 4dB variance at 3500hz), but even half that can be audible.

4. Yes I swapped the pads on one pair with the pads on mine. Sound stayed the same...since the pads were both relatively new, and not a lot of people used it ahead of me.

5. It's not reeeeeally huge deal otherwise, but if he's contemplating getting an HD6XX, he can have one that's indistinguishable (likely newer ones) or one that will be markedly different (likely a few of the older ones).