[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline The interlinks didn't have the transparancy i want, so i will go for a higher model, but they made hd650 sound, faster, more natural and complete under control.

Exactly my recent experience when I switched from an Ixos 1002 interconnect to a VDH The Bay C5. Perhaps not exactly on the same level, since I'm driving my 650 with an integrated amp, yet I too can say

p.s.: I also tried improvising a "0 ohm" situation by connecting my headphones to the speaker output of the amp (no worries: I knew what I was doing

) and with the 650 I heard an improved bass control and subtly reduced (bass) presence, but just a small difference overall, nothing dramatic. For the rest, the balance was identical and the overall sound from the amp's headphone jack just as detailed and pleasing. The treble sounded the same.

 

[Andrea]

boodi,

the hp-2 nearly doesn't count for me: it's beyond my reach for price and yet more for 'availability'. I may predict that I'll never get to see one. In any event, I'm sure that I would miss a something unique about the 650 as you described yourself.

edit-- I'd rather wait for some HD700 or K601 then

 

[Mastergill]

The Sennheiser HD-650 is a definitive improvement over HD-600. And this time i can say it's not IMO, it's fact that can be measured.

Lower harmonics distortions give this extremely natural sound and increased details perception. They are definitively more accurate and neutral than HD-600. Furthermore, they improved the frequency response, taming the slight midbass hump (which became obvious when you do the comparison, but was not a real problem with HD-600, bass was already excellent with those). They have better bass response than most of the mid-field monitors that i know which cost 10 times more. No "bloated bass" here, but a real visceral, tight, fast and full bass response down to 20Hz and maybe lower.

I listen 99% to rock music (heck, i must be mad i don't use Grado

) and with rock music drums and bass are the foundation. After more than one year and half, i'm still amazed by the clarity and details, not only in the midrange and highs, but down to the lowest octave.

Upstream gear is extremely important, like with all fine transducers they won't turn the crap into gold. Making analogies i thought sometime they are like a sponge, taking everything you throw at them, the ugly or the finest.
But i think they are more like a perfectly flat and polished mirror, they will reflect the crap or the magnificent without deforming anything.

They are truly of the highest class monitoring/mastering headphone.
Try them with some of the best 300B amplification, you'll see...it's like "BAM!!", the window is now completely open...I can wait in peace my Harbeth monitors 30...thank you Sennheiser, and again, my hat off to these great engineers.

 

[smittysan89]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AML From what i've read, some headfiers received the HD650 drivers from the Amazon refurb deal.

nope! AKzip bought a new pair of HD600, and noticed that after an hour they sounded alot like his 650 then even more after 3, then he opened up the grills and compared the drivers with his older pair of HD600 and his pair of HD650, he noticed that the drivers looked just like the 650, and not like his and his friends 600 drivers. So then he called sennheiser and asked them about and indeed some pairs of the HD600 were shipped out with HD650 drivers.

I like the design of the 600 better and wanted the 650 sound so i bought them! (for a great deal too only 3 hours on them)

I just sent out MO yesterday so i should get them soon.

 

[Teerawit]

Does anyone feel that the HD600 is more forward-sounding (more upfront) while the 650 is more laid back? Do you also think that the 600 is brighter than the 650? I A/Bed both of them today, I dunno...my ears may have been playing tricks on me or something...

 

[Andrea]

To me it's the midrange to decide of "laidback or forward" more than the bass and treble. So the HD650 is forward to me (as needed, no more).

 

[Patrickhat2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit Does anyone feel that the HD600 is more forward-sounding (more upfront) while the 650 is more laid back? Do you also think that the 600 is brighter than the 650? I A/Bed both of them today, I dunno...my ears may have been playing tricks on me or something...

When it comes to forwardness in some ways yes, in others no. While using the same cable on each phone (a vital necessity if one wants to control for all external factors) the HD600 sounds more energetic to me--faster and airier. In comparision the HD650 sounds a little slower and denser (lacking airiness, almost more like the sound from a closed headphone which, usually, have a notorious lack of air). But, on the other hand the added density (less airiness) of the HD650 seems to give it more oommph, a more impactfull sound than can be found in the HD600. Bass and even mids hit a little harder on the HD650 when compared to the HD600 which gives it's sound a certain energy that the HD600 can't produce as well. Still, all in all, the HD600, to me, is the more energetic and forward sounding phone.

In terms of brightness, yes the HD600 does have a little more brightness to it than the HD650 (I'm talking about tonal character here, not frequency response). But, to my ears, the HD650 is a very warm (aka dark) sounding phone so the extra brightness of the HD600 is actually a reflection of it's more neutral tonal character, on an absolute scale (both phones are on the dark sight of the spectrum). Were you using HD600 and HD650 with there corresponding stock cables? That might have exacerbated things since I find the stock HD600 cable to be brighter than the stock HD650 cable.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrickhat2001 In comparision the HD650 sounds a little slower and denser (lacking airiness, almost more like the sound from a closed headphone which, usually, have a notorious lack of air). ... But, to my ears, the HD650 is a very warm (aka dark) sounding phone so the extra brightness of the HD600 is actually a reflection of it's more neutral tonal character,

Might even be, but in comparison as you said.

I perceive the sound from my 650 as wide open (when asked for), and wouldn't complain about the most remote "closeness".

Mightn't it depend on our different "hearing curves" too ?

Also no excess of warmth and the less so of darkness for me. I don't find the overall sound that very warm

especially if you speak of timbre. I'd better stay away from a couple Sonys and such in the future

 

[Patrickhat2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea Might even be, but in comparison as you said. I perceive the sound from my 650 as wide open (when asked for), and wouldn't complain about the most remote "closeness". Mightn't it depend on our different "hearing curves" too ? Also no excess of warmth and the less so of darkness for me. I don't find the overall sound that very warm especially if you speak of timbre. I'd better stay away from a couple Sonys and such in the future

Not closeness (er, closedness

) but a lack of air that is similar to that shown in closed headphones (excepting the CD3000/R10 which are more like open headphones with big radiating cups). It's not such a strange idea either--fellow head-fier Nik commented on the same trait when he tried the HD650. Do you find the HD595 to have a more airy (less dense, transparent) sound than the HD650? I certainly do (in relation to both the HD650 and HD600), which is one of the main reasons I keep them around.

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrickhat2001 Do you find the HD595 to have a more airy (less dense, transparent) sound than the HD650? I certainly do (in relation to both the HD650 and HD600), which is one of the main reasons I keep them around.

That's maybe because your amps don't have enough juice for the 300 ohms 6X0's drivers. They're starving for high voltage and you need to listen relatively loud with the Senn to fully benefit from the "diffuse field equalization" or something.

I can understand people calling them laid-back or distant if you listen at low volume and slow/thick if you don't have enough juice.

 

[maarek99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill That's maybe because your amps don't have enough juice for the 300 ohms 6X0's drivers. They're starving for high voltage and you need to listen relatively loud with the Senn to fully benefit from the "diffuse field equalization" or something.

The 650/600/580 require almost the same amout of juice.

Yes, the 650 is less "airier" than my 580.

 

[Patrickhat2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill That's maybe because your amps don't have enough juice for the 300 ohms 6X0's drivers. They're starving for high voltage and you need to listen relatively loud with the Senn to fully benefit from the "diffuse field equalization" or something. I can understand people calling them laid-back or distant if you listen at low volume and slow/thick if you don't have enough juice.

Perhaps with the XP-7, yes, I always thought they didn't power the HD6X0 to my liking (although, many others will disagree) but with my Gilmore V2 heck no, quite the opposite actually. I and many others will attest to the the ability of Gilmore amps to "wake up" Sennheiser phones.

But that's not the real issue here--it is that, IMO, the HD600 is a more airy sounding headphone than the HD650. I simply brought up the HD595 as a reference point for Andrea to compare his HD650 too concerning this trait. I really doubt many would think the HD650 (even with silver cables) to have a more airy sound than a HD595.

 

[dknightd]

I can't vote. I listened to the 580 years ago, then bought the 650 last year.
Interesting thread. Interesting comments. Since in music there is no right answer - different ears, different preferences, different days, etc. The comments are more interesting to read than the "vote".
To be honest popularity poles on headphones are pretty much useless when comparing similarly capable products. If you are that concerned then you've got to listen for yourself. My opinion...
That said.
I think techinically the 650 is a better can. It seems to have a smoother frequency responce (the 580 midbase hump is less pronounced in the 650, and, to me the the highs sound more natural - of course it has been a few years, and to me "natural" is compared to speakers, and actual acoustic instruments played in my living room - it is very possible that room acoustics have tainted what I consider natural). Based on memory I find the "air" around instruments on the 650 to be preferable to me than the air on the 580.
I like the 650 more than what I remember the 580 sounding like. I don't know if I could tell the difference between the 580 and 600 - maybe, who knows I've never listened to the 600. And my comparison is flawed by using different equipment, and, being seperated in time.
There is no doubt in my mind that both the 580 and 650 benefit from an
amp that is fast (dV/dt has to be as large as possible), and has at least 12 volts availble on the output rails (you don't need that voltage for volume, but to provide more than enough volts to make the amp work fast - kindoff like how you don't need high current capability for a low impedance load to reach high volumes, but you need that available current to make things sound good). Somewhat counter intuitively they like to have an amp with near zero output impedance.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill Furthermore, they improved the frequency response, taming the slight midbass hump (which became obvious when you do the comparison, but was not a real problem with HD-600, bass was already excellent with those). They have better bass response than most of the mid-field monitors that i know which cost 10 times more. No "bloated bass" here, but a real visceral, tight, fast and full bass response down to 20Hz and maybe lower

Not bloated, but very amorphous and indistinct. I think they took a good thing and slightly overdamped it. I didn't vote here because they are both good phones that do nice things and my Stax walks over the both of them.

 

[dknightd]

I'd like to get a bigger version of the 650 which could be strapped to my chest and back. Bass notes just don't sound right if your body can't feel them. Who feels it knows it.