HD600 sounds brighter than Grado???
Apr 30, 2013 at 4:15 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 9

redrum42

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Hi,
 
So I just picked up a pair of HD600s yesterday used: thought it was time to hear what the fuss was all about. What confused me though is how bright they sound - there is loads of upper treble making cymbals louder and more piercing than I am used to. I am coming from a long time listening to my Grados: originally sr80s with custom wood cups.
 
The sennheisers definitely are a lot smoother and more laidback in the mids and upper mids, but I am hearing far more upper treble with them than with the Grados. What should I make of this? Are Grados actually quite rolled off in the upper frequencies and what people continually describe as them being "bright" is actually loads of upper mids?
 
The HD600s don't sound very balanced to me. Do I just need to get used to them? Or could it be an amp issue. I'm using a ZERO dac/amp combo to power them. Not the best, but I don't see why it would make them sound really bright unless the ZERO was a really bright amp. Didn't think it was...
 
Anyway, any thoughts people?
 
Thanks!
 
Apr 30, 2013 at 4:26 AM Post #2 of 9
The HD600 are way much warmer than the Grados, but I dont know the modding made with your pair, so there might be less hights. The second differance is the more neutral bass of The HD600 that might leed to the impression of accentuated tremble.
 
Apr 30, 2013 at 5:27 AM Post #3 of 9
@redrum42
Interesting.  As an owner of the HD600 and SR325i - I immediately thought "that cannot be" - so I decided to take a quick look at a graph .....
 

 
You're actually correct - according to Headroom's graph, the HD600 does have a final peak at around 11kHz - which is definitely more than both the SR80 and also the SR325i that I own.
 
Golden ears shows it as well - http://en.goldenears.net/8072, but the peak is pretty small.  They also show the comparatively lower drop-off on the 325i (I couldn't find the SR80i) http://en.goldenears.net/16616
 
For me anyway - I've always found the SR325i to be brighter (maybe clearer) - but I do wonder if it's the type of music one is listening to.  Above 10k you are definitely into the high treble - and I guess instruments with the biggest impact at these frequencies will be cymbals, violins, and maybe the extreme upper end of some woodwind instruments (http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm).  Music with a lot of cymbals may exhibit some sibilance - but I guess I don't notice it as I'm not overly sensitive to it.
 
The other factor may well be that the HD600 has a much smoother treble - while the Grados are a little rougher in their presentation.
 
Anyway - it is a good observation - as I would never have picked it.
 
@cucera - I agree with the idea of the HD600 having a warmer and smoother upper mid.  I would correct you on one thing though (sorry - pet hate of mine) - the word you are looking for is treble, not tremble.  To tremble is to shake .....
 
Apr 30, 2013 at 5:47 AM Post #4 of 9
Thanks for the great replies!
 
 cucera: yer, I guess the wooden cups reduced the highs a bit. I didn't think it was that big of a difference though. And yes I think you are right. I think the reduced bass and the much less intense transients in the upper mids make the really high frequencies stand out with the HD600 in a way that they don't with my Grados.
 
Brooko: Very interesting! Yer, it is all in cymbals and stuff that I notice this. I guess it makes sense. What is bothering me though is that I find the emphasis in this range a bit unnatural: it seems to give vocals a slightly too crisp quality and guitars a little too thin and shimmery. I'm surprised because the HD600s are always cited as very neutral. Perhaps I just need to un-learn the Grado bias? I might try out a different amp and see if my ZERO is making the high-treble too harsh...
 
Apr 30, 2013 at 6:17 AM Post #5 of 9
Quote:
Brooko: Very interesting! Yer, it is all in cymbals and stuff that I notice this. I guess it makes sense. What is bothering me though is that I find the emphasis in this range a bit unnatural: it seems to give vocals a slightly too crisp quality and guitars a little too thin and shimmery. I'm surprised because the HD600s are always cited as very neutral. Perhaps I just need to un-learn the Grado bias? I might try out a different amp and see if my ZERO is making the high-treble too harsh...

 
I think you hit the nail on the head.  If you spent a couple of weeks only with the HD600 and then switched to the Grado - I think you'd find out why the HD600 are considered to be so natural/neutral.  For me - it depends on what I'm listening to and the mood I'm in.  I do love all my cans though - and they still get equal head-time.  The one thing that still takes my breath away often when I wear the HD600s - is how natural the stage is, and how well they portray music (especially live music).  I have an album of Loreena McKennitt's (her live show in Toronto) - and at several points the wash of the applause actually has me sitting in the audience - it is unbelievably realistic.  I can't get that with my 325is.  It truly is something special.
 
The Grados are edgy, exciting, brutally able to display raw emotion - but they aren't neutral (they are fun though).  The HD600's are smoother - but able to put me in the audience like no other headphone I own.
 
Apr 30, 2013 at 7:11 AM Post #6 of 9
@redrum42
Interesting.  As an owner of the HD600 and SR325i - I immediately thought "that cannot be" - so I decided to take a quick look at a graph .....




You're actually correct - according to Headroom's graph, the HD600 does have a final peak at around 11kHz - which is definitely more than both the SR80 and also the SR325i that I own.

Golden ears shows it as well - http://en.goldenears.net/8072
, but the peak is pretty small.  They also show the comparatively lower drop-off on the 325i (I couldn't find the SR80i) http://en.goldenears.net/16616


@cucera - I agree with the idea of the HD600 having a warmer and smoother upper mid.  I would correct you on one thing though (sorry - pet hate of mine) - the word you are looking for is treble, not tremble.  To tremble is to shake .....

Yeah you're right, we Germans build better headphones than speak Englisch. :mad: I tremble only before the Lord. :D
 
Apr 30, 2013 at 7:33 AM Post #7 of 9
Ihren Englisch ist besser als mein Deutsch !  
size]

 
And you are correct - the Germans have built some mighty fine headphones :)
 
Apr 30, 2013 at 11:50 AM Post #8 of 9
Quote:
Hi,
 
So I just picked up a pair of HD600s yesterday used: thought it was time to hear what the fuss was all about. What confused me though is how bright they sound - there is loads of upper treble making cymbals louder and more piercing than I am used to. I am coming from a long time listening to my Grados: originally sr80s with custom wood cups.
 
The sennheisers definitely are a lot smoother and more laidback in the mids and upper mids, but I am hearing far more upper treble with them than with the Grados. What should I make of this? Are Grados actually quite rolled off in the upper frequencies and what people continually describe as them being "bright" is actually loads of upper mids?
 
The HD600s don't sound very balanced to me. Do I just need to get used to them? Or could it be an amp issue. I'm using a ZERO dac/amp combo to power them. Not the best, but I don't see why it would make them sound really bright unless the ZERO was a really bright amp. Didn't think it was...
 
Anyway, any thoughts people?
 
Thanks!

 
How deflated are the earpads? If they're too worn the drivers getting too close to your ears make the overall sound warmer but with noticeable treble peaks. I've had people think mine (when I brought new pads) feel like it's not a warm headphone, but incredibly smooth. A lot less note the treble peak on pads that are old enough though.
 
Nov 8, 2014 at 11:29 AM Post #9 of 9
  Hi,
 
So I just picked up a pair of HD600s yesterday used: thought it was time to hear what the fuss was all about. What confused me though is how bright they sound - there is loads of upper treble making cymbals louder and more piercing than I am used to. I am coming from a long time listening to my Grados: originally sr80s with custom wood cups.
 
The sennheisers definitely are a lot smoother and more laidback in the mids and upper mids, but I am hearing far more upper treble with them than with the Grados. What should I make of this? Are Grados actually quite rolled off in the upper frequencies and what people continually describe as them being "bright" is actually loads of upper mids?
 
The HD600s don't sound very balanced to me. Do I just need to get used to them? Or could it be an amp issue. I'm using a ZERO dac/amp combo to power them. Not the best, but I don't see why it would make them sound really bright unless the ZERO was a really bright amp. Didn't think it was...
 
Anyway, any thoughts people?
 
Thanks!

Yeah I knew someone noticed this. 
 
The HD 600 does have a peak and a bit more treble resolution. I actually found it a bit exagerrated for my taste the first couple of days. But it's all good now.
 
Sometimes it can be fatiguing with the schiit vali amp
 

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