[9pintube]

Drumonron and the other cable upgrade believers, for the life of me I can not understand the Non-believers that can not see or hear our point........It's what each of us hear or THINK we hear that makes the difference, doesn't it!    I'm not telling My buddy, Head Injury, and the others that his thoughts on No DBT are wrong or that he must be missing something that "WE'RE hearing, I'm just saying (preaching) if you will.  To Each His Own, and to just enjoy you music....the way You love it.

 

[TheAttorney]

Quote:

Be that as it may, I do find it interesting that one would assume that one bottle neck makes any other bottleneck immaterial and without influence on the overall effect.

This is an interesting point and one that forever puzzles me. Yet time and time again, it's proven valid (to my satisfaction) that a single change in one part of the chain can be heard despite there being several apparently bigger bottlenecks elsewere. For example, when I upgraded my 1metre expensive interconnect to an even more expensive 1 metre one, at the same time I doubled the length of my modestly priced Stax HP cable from 2.5 metres to 5 metres. You may have thought that doubling the length of the more modest cable would have swamped the effects of the interconnect. Yet the overall improvement was obvious (to my total satisfaction). 

 

[eucariote]

Quote:

 
You know, the rule is there for a reason. Please respect it as well as you can! It's annoying for people searching for specific advice to be bombed with ideologic credos instead of personal experience, which this place is made for. You can use your well-known playground for exchanging the former.
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You assume too little..  I own HD600, stock and upgrade cables.  

 I'd hope that answering direct questions ('is the effect universal') is allowed in the forum, while actually doing the unspeakable is for the other forum.

 

[JaZZ]

...it's proven valid (to my satisfaction) that a single change in one part of the chain can be heard despite there being several apparently bigger bottlenecks elsewere...

...not to speak of electronics components (and cables) shining through the comparably massive inaccuracies of sound transducers!
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[JaZZ]

JaZZ, I have not created any rules as you accuse me of "You create the rules for evaluating cables, but fail to observe the well-known rules around here." I was making a suggestion in keeping with the direction that this thread has taken. BIG POPPA is not bound to do what I say and for you to suggest such is a nonsense. 

I was assuming that you consider every other method inappropriate and a key to self-delusion. Am I completely wrong? – However, nothing personal!

 Also, I needed some striking keywords (...rules to rules...).

 

Originally Posted by Head Injury /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
That's not what I said at all, and I'm really surprised that that's what you got out of it.
 
I said that, unlike other electronics, there's no way to reliably and consistently spot real differences in the performance of a cable. Because audio memory and bias gets in the way of AB comparisons, they all serve the same function, and because the specs tell us nothing.
 
Purely subjective differences (like you're mentioning in your response, rather than real differences) are a separate beast entirely, and something I didn't touch on in my post because the post was meant to compare the need of blind tests in cables to POPPA's proposed blind tests in other electronics. Other electronics are not as affected by subjective differences because most of their differences are proven real.
 
POPPA, you don't have to DBT every time you listen to music. Just once (well, once over 20 tests) to prove you can hear differences. If that's going to get in the way of your future enjoyment, that's almost an admission that it'll ruin the illusion for you.

You keep on talking about DBT, whereas this corner of the forum is dedicated to exchanging listening experiences. (I suppose you know the Science forum, right?) – If my wording/interpretation was inaccurate, it's due to the lack of corresponding on-topic information from your part.
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[JaZZ]

 

You assume too little..  I own HD600, stock and upgrade cables.  

 I'd hope that answering direct questions ('is the effect universal') is allowed in the forum, while actually doing the unspeakable is for the other forum.

With a bit of goodwill you would understand the reason for the DBT ban in this part of the forum: It's for detracting the basis for someone's pretension that his or her experience/approach/belief/ideology be universally and exclusively valid.
.

 

[Draca]

Quote:

With a bit of goodwill you would understand the reason for the DBT ban in this part of the forum: It's for detracting the basis for someone's pretension that his or her experience/approach/belief/ideology be universally and exclusively valid.
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JaZZ you don't believe in gravity either right?
 
'nuff said.

 

[Drumonron]

I hope the lot of us were some help to the OP.
 
I'd exit by saying that IF and only IF you feel the rest of your system's rig is upgraded, I would then proceed with the headphone cable upgrade and it's at that point I heard a plethora of changes in MY HD600.
 
I wish you the best and above all....simply take some time out to pause and listen and finally, enjoy each of your upgrades.
 
It really is a rewarding and fun hobby.
 
 
 

 

[sampson_smith]

I just want to ring in an say that I am very pleased with the improvement that a HD650 cable makes over the stock HD600 one. To me, it seems the soundstage is a bit more open and the bass, more rich and controlled. This fix represents the cheapest (and most convenient?) way to improve the SQ of the trusty HD600. I am currently loving the $%&* out of these cans! Blissful listening going on!

 

[Shahrose]

Upgrading the HD600/HD650 cable is worth it IME. If you have atleast half decent gear and relatively trained ears, you should be able to reliably discern an improvement over the stock cable.
 
Changing wire material makes the largest difference (ie. copper to silver) but getting a better quality UP-OCC cable will yield improvements too as long as you have good quality ancillaries.

 

[JamesL]

Quote:

Drumonron and the other cable upgrade believers, for the life of me I can not understand the Non-believers that can not see or hear our point........It's what each of us hear or THINK we hear that makes the difference, doesn't it!    I'm not telling My buddy, Head Injury, and the others that his thoughts on No DBT are wrong or that he must be missing something that "WE'RE hearing, I'm just saying (preaching) if you will.  To Each His Own, and to just enjoy you music....the way You love it.

 
You got it all wrong.  Some believers like you will say that cables make a difference in what you hear, but most cable-believers will insist that cables makes a difference in the actual sound that your headphone reproduces.
Make note the difference.
 
Few nonbelievers argue against the fact that changing cables will change what you hear.  Most of us including me will only argue against the fact that cables change the sound that your headphone reproduces.
 
 
Heres an example.  You can view a piece of artwork in two different settings and what you interpret from that artwork may be different.  However the painting itself will still be identical.  

 

[BIG POPPA]

You make it so complicated when it is not.
Quote:

 
You got it all wrong.  Some believers like you will say that cables make a difference in what you hear, but most cable-believers will insist that cables makes a difference in the actual sound that your headphone reproduces.
Make note the difference.
 
Few nonbelievers argue against the fact that changing cables will change what you hear.  Most of us including me will only argue against the fact that cables change the sound that your headphone reproduces.
 
 
Heres an example.  You can view a piece of artwork in two different settings and what you interpret from that artwork may be different.  However the painting itself will still be identical.  

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

You make it so complicated when it is not.

Here's a simplified version for you:
 
Cables make no physically audible difference.
 
A slightly less simplified version (you can do it!):
 
Cables make no physically audible difference, only psychologically audible ones.

 

[BIG POPPA]

Copper sounds different than SPC. Silver sounds different than Copper or SPC. They are different metals with different compositions. There is no way they sound the same. Some are too cheap to find out though? LOL

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Copper sounds different than SPC. Silver sounds different than Copper or SPC. They are different metals with different compositions. There is no way they sound the same. Some are too cheap to find out though? LOL

 
Was it not simple enough for you?
 
It's not the material that sounds different. It's you knowing what material it is.
 
sampson_smith and shahrose, thanks so much for reviving this waste of time