[Whitebread]

I'm happy wiht my HD650s currently, but that large hole in my wallet keeps attracting my attention. I paid 353 for the HD650s including tax from J&R and I've seen the HD580s for as much as 200 less in places. That 200 could finance more than 50% of an M3 preamp and I'm wondering if I should return the HD650s and purchase the HD580s. What do you guys think? How do the 580s compare to the 650s? Is the sound signature the same? I would assume the 580s are less dark than the 650s. Is the top end as rolled off? What should I do?

 

[jagorev]

I would get the 580.

 

[solbergg]

I can't say much about comparing the two, since I have only briefly heard the 650's, but I will say that I love my 580's. You just have to be willing to accept their homely looks.

 

[RTilbury]

I sent you a PM White, please read.

 

[Whitebread]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTilbury I sent you a PM White, please read.

I don't have a PM from you, RTilbury.

 

[Whitebread]

Quote:

Originally Posted by solbergg I can't say much about comparing the two, since I have only briefly heard the 650's, but I will say that I love my 580's. You just have to be willing to accept their homely looks.

I don't really care about how they look. I'm the only one that sees the headphones really.

 

[calgary2800]

I wouldnt buy the 650 even if its the same price as the 580.

 

[Whitebread]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgary2800 I wouldnt buy the 650 even if its the same price as the 580.

Ok, well can I assume that means that I should get the 580s?

 

[Beauregard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitebread ... How do the 580s compare to the 650s? Is the sound signature the same? I would assume the 580s are less dark than the 650s. Is the top end as rolled off? What should I do?

I don't have finely tuned audiophile sensitivities (i.e. I wouldn't know a recessed upper-mid if it bit me in the arse.) - but I have spent a lot of time with these phones. 580s for 12 years with the 650s being my main phones for the last year.

The 580s don't sound as "dark" as the 650s. They have a greater sense of air that can be appealing but I find the top end of the 650s to be liquid smooth and refined. There's actually no relative loss of high frequency response compared to the 580s; I think the "air" of the 580s is more an artifact of their design than an accurate reproduction of what's been recorded - which is better rendererd by the 650s.

There's definitely lower and cleaner bass with 650s. Something a reggae fan should consider.

The 650s are more detailed; instruments, especially acoustic, sound more true-to-life to me.

That said, both phones are obviously from the same "sound family"; if you're happy with the overally presentation of the 650s you'd probably be OK with the 580s.

So, yeah, I think the 650s are a definite improvement over the 580s and they were a worthwhile investment for me - but I'd already gotten more than 10 years use of my 580s when I upgraded. It's not clear just what you're shooting for - the ability to buy an amp sooner rather than later, maybe? Wondering if 580s with a good amp would be better than 650s without?

Best way for you to make your decision is to listen to some 580s at a local dealer, if possible. Or even order a set from another dealer with a return policy and send one of the phones back after you've decided. It could well be worth a few bucks in shipping costs to feel like you've spent your money wisely.

Good luck!
Beau

 

[Svperstar]

Well one thing to consider is bass. I for one absolutely hate strong bass in headphones. It just hurts my ears and gives me a headache and it covers up the rest of the music.

From everything I have read on here the 650s have stronger thicker bass then the 580s and I already think the 580s are too bass heavy.

Also, again based off of what people say the 580s are brighter but compared to my Sony SA5000s and my AKG 240s they aren't bright at all to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauregard I think the "air" of the 580s is more an artifact of their design than an accurate reproduction of what's been recorded - which is better rendererd by the 650s

Once again. People always talk about how much they love the warm, thick, creamy, bass heavy, dark sound of the 650s...............of course untill they say they are better than another pair of headphones.

At which point it becomes the most neutral, balanced, accurate tool for replaying music exactly as was when it was recorded in the studio. If it sounds different than the 650s it isn't just different, it is wrong......except for the HE90.

 

[RTilbury]

Sorry whitebread, i sent you an email, not am message. But I just sent you a PM also. Please read and get back to me.

Thanks

 

[Beauregard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svperstar ... At which point it becomes the most neutral, balanced, accurate tool for replaying music exactly as was when it was recorded in the studio. If it sounds different than the 650s it isn't just different, it is wrong......except for the HE90.

FWIW, as a classical music lover my reference for describing the sound of the top end of the 650s as being more objectively natural than the 580s is long experience listening to live concerts in many venues.

There ain't as much "air" in real life as there is in the way the 580s reproduce recorded acoustic music. If it makes you happier, I'll be glad to say that I simply have a preference for equipment that best simulates live musical performances.

 

[Svperstar]

Oh yeah to the original poster. I didn't see you don't have an amp, 580 + Amp > Pretty much ANY can unamped. You really do need an amp to make them shine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauregard FWIW, as a classical music lover my reference for describing the sound of the top end of the 650s as being more objectively natural than the 580s is long experience listening to live concerts in many venues.

Oh I get what you are saying but it is kind of a contradiction when you read up on what people say about the 650. I'm not trying to pick on you this is just a theme that comes up when the 650s are mentioned.

In thread after thread people praise the 650s "colored", thick sound. Anytime people ask for headphone recommendations and the 650 comes up people will say it has a very warm colored sound that some people may not like. Colored as an audio term means that it "adds something arificial" to the music that is not present in the recording. For example going into an EQ and moving the bars all up and down slightly would "color" the sound.

However, then when it is compared to other headphones then people say it is more neutral, more natural, balanced........its amazing how many ways people describe the 650 on here. The bass on the 650s is said to be exaggerated......if that is so then how is it neutral or natural?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauregard There ain't as much "air" in real life as there is in the way the 580s reproduce recorded acoustic music. If it makes you happier, I'll be glad to say that I simply have a preference for equipment that best simulates live musical performances.

In my experience when sitting in front of someone playing acoustic guitar it is much brighter then how it sounds on either my 580s or my AKG 240s, both warm/dark cans. This is why many people think rock on Sennheisers is "boring". It lacks that sparkle in guitars that exists in real life.

So if the 650s are even warmer and darker I don't see how it could be natural sound.

Interestingly enough, people also say the 650s are more "airy".

Yeah I'm confused too.

EDIT: I love your sig btw. I can't wait for the HD700s to be released. I want to see what people say about it in reguard to the 650...........

 

[Beauregard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svperstar ... Oh I get what you are saying but it is kind of a contradiction when you read up on what people say about the 650. I'm not trying to pick on you this is just a theme that comes up when the 650s are mentioned. ... Interestingly enough, people also say the 650s are more "airy". Yeah I'm confused too. EDIT: I love your sig btw. I can't wait for the HD700s to be released. I want to see what people say about it in reguard to the 650...........

I get your point. I'm not a big experimenter and I surely don't have refined audiophile sensibilities so I wasn't making any claim about overall accuracy, neutrality, etc. the way others do. Just offering my opinion about the "air" thing. It's rather amazing to see the countless ways that people "hear" differently when reading these forums, isn't it?

As far as the Senn 700s... The one thing I'm sure of is that a vocal minority will insist they have a veil.

 

[kwitel]

Does anybody know where I can find the 580's in Gray??
Ive seen them in a Charcoal color a couple of times, but the more popular one I guess is the basic Blue.
In Gray with the 650 grills they look quite nice.