HD 650 Fans

[donlin]

Reading through a recent thread for people to list their Sennheiser systems, I realized I must not be the only one who prefers 650's to more expensive phones.

I'd like to hear from people who could afford, and have carefully auditioned/owned more expensive phones, but choose the 650's simply because they like the sound better, not because they are less expensive.

 

[vcoheda]

what a great topic. hopefully it will stay on point and many will comment. if anyone has preferred the HD650 (Bal or SE) to the GS1000, Ed.9, L3000, or other limited edition AT or grado headphones, or any other expensive dynamic or electrotstatic headphones, please share your experience.

thanks

 

[nfusion770]

I'm interested to see what others have to say as well. I prefered the balanced 650 to the single ended w5000 and so far, to the single ended GS1000. I didn't give the GS1000 a whole lot of time as it's sound sig is too bright for me, but I later learned that it may have a driver issue. The GS1000 is in the shop right now- and I plan to give it some more time when I get it back.

The problem I have with the 650 is that it can be muddy at times. I really enjoy it about 95% of the time, but recently listening to the K701 made me a little jealous of it separation and soundstage. I'm unsure if it is a limitation I just need to live with, if there is another dynamic out there that resembles a K701/650, or if a wholesale sell off and second look at the OII is warranted.

Hoping this topic lends some insight.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfusion770 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem I have with the 650 is that it can be muddy at times.

My experience is that this is most of the time lack of proper amplification, and particularly: Voltage.

 

[nfusion770]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees /img/forum/go_quote.gif My experience is that this is most of the time lack of proper amplification, and particularly: Voltage.

Squeezebox 3 with Bolder modded Elpac power supply
Lavry DA-10
Grover S balanced
Ray Samuels Apache
Revelation Audio Labs balanced Senn 650

It is still muddy or "smeared" in complex passages. The problem is their positives far outweigh their negatives, so do I accept them, tweak something, or completely change? I feel like I am running up against what many have said "no headphone is perfect."

I don't want to thread jack- just eager to benefit from others trial and error.

 

[Kees]

Up to now my balanced HD650 survived every "popularity attack" from other headphones.
This includes among many others (single ended) the PS1, JVC DX1000, (electrostat) HE60 and balanced L3000.
They are not better than the above in the strict sence, but just too good to be missed.
I just sold the L3000 to finance a pair of Omega II.
The HD650 is still here.
I recently also rediscovered the HD650 single ended. The Stealth (OTL) is extremely good for high impedance phones (read: HD650) when paired with the right tubes. I got a very nice pair of Sylvanias that makes them really sing.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfusion770 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Squeezebox 3 with Bolder modded Elpac power supply Lavry DA-10 Grover S balanced Ray Samuels Apache Revelation Audio Labs balanced Senn 650

I haven't heard any of the components you mention, but the amplification section seems to be just fine (understatement) in your case....
By the way: how is the RAL cable on the HD650?

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfusion770 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Squeezebox 3 with Bolder modded Elpac power supply Lavry DA-10 Grover S balanced Ray Samuels Apache Revelation Audio Labs balanced Senn 650 It is still muddy or "smeared" in complex passages. The problem is their positives far outweigh their negatives, so do I accept them, tweak something, or completely change? I feel like I am running up against what many have said "no headphone is perfect." I don't want to thread jack- just eager to benefit from others trial and error.

No lack of power here.. I agree about the smearing.. My SA5000 wipes the floor with the 650 in that regard..

 

[PiccoloNamek]

No smearing here. Such an assertion doesn't even make a lick of sense from a technical viewpoint. If it was so slow that it "smeared" the audio data, it wouldn't even be able to produce any treble at all. I don't know what you're hearing but it certainly isn't smearing.

This reminds me of the time with some doofuses were claiming that the ER4's armature unit was designed so that the diaphragm tapped the inside of the armature housing as a way of faking detail.

 

[LeChuck]

What's wonderful about the HD 650 (along with the HD 580 and HD 600) is its limitless scalability. Rarely do people consider the HD 650 a bottleneck in their system, but instead resort to something that sounds subjectively better, rather than objectively.

There are people who drive their HD 650's with $200 worth of equipment, and people who plug them into $20,000 of insanity, and both camps are very happy.

I have heard owners of ultra-expensive esoteric headphones say they still consider their HD 650's to be their base-reference can, even if they prefer their R10's or Omega-II's or whatever else for everyday listening.

 

[nfusion770]

Like I said, I don't want this thread to be about me, I was just adding my 2 cents.

PiccoloNamek
I used the term smearing as a reference to a thread from a few weeks ago. I am not sure I would actually christen it that, but there is a definite lack of separation and muddiness when things get too complex- specifically in the bass/ low mids area I think. Semantics is hardly a reason for me to ignore what I hear.

Kees
I identify with your posts quite a bit. I had the O2 for a while as well. I sold it for several reasons, a lot of which had to do with their expense and the amount of time I had for them. I was also more of a Beyer/ Grado guy at the time and didn't really know how to appreciate darker, richer cans- now that seems like all I can appreciate. I am kind of intrigued to revisit the 02, but could very likely find myself back at square 1, learning to accept the 5-10% of the 650 that could stand improvement.

By the way, the RAL is my favorite of the 3 cables I've tried. Equinox- too trebly; Cardas V1, didnt seem that much better than stock. Even single ended the RAL opened up the 650 adding a nice sparkle, but not the trebley type that tends to aggravate me with time. Completely non- fatiguing to me, which seems to be a huge problem with most other headphones I sample these days.

Lechuck
I have difficulty understanding how people actually enjoy the 650 on $200 equipment but, then again, I guess we all have our own ears. I fully understand the scaling though, Ive heard some people say that the 650 with a proper rig is the closest thing to the Orpheus. I have no perspective on that, but I have heard the 650 scale with my system and it has never seemed out of it's league. Maybe I need to find a clearer, more analytical source than the DA10.

Again, sorry for kind of thread jacking Donlin, looking forward to others comments.

 

[feifan]

Using the HeadRoom Desktop (maxed out; single-ended), I hear a world of difference among the GS-1000, HD650, and K-701. The primary difference seems to be in the crossfeed, and this becomes obvious only when I do a comparison. The GSK blows away the 650 and 701. It separates and clarifies the entire span, whereas the 650 and 701 seem to glob it. The result is a crystal clear sense of tracking ear-to-ear and mid-head movement. I used an instrumental with complex crossing patterns, Faye Wong's "Uneasy" (Restless, Cinepoly 1996).

Soundstage point-of-view, too, is different. With the 650, I feel as though I'm in the midst of the musicians, up close and compact. With the 701, I'm in the audience, with a wider, higher, deeper soundstage. With the GSK, I'm in among the musicians but on a very spacious stage -- with the added sense that the musicians are actually moving (nearer and farther) on stage to give me the best possible sound (and definition) at every moment throughout the track.

With music that's not so dependent on crossfeed, the differences seem to be far less. The GSK seems to have been tweaked by human hands to deliver the most musical sound. The 701 seems to have been designed to deliver clarity and accuracy. In this scheme, the 650 seems to be a little bit of both.

When the DAC/amp and source are held constant, the cans of choice seem to be dependent on the music and what you want out of it. Thus, head-fiers probably have more than one pair that they shuffle between/among.

Would I sell/trade the 650? No. It's a de facto standard for review and discussion purposes, and for me it's a working compromise between the GSK and the 701. Thus, if I had to choose only one pair, it would be the 650.

 

[donlin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Would I sell/trade the 650? No. It's a de facto standard for review and discussion purposes, and for me it's a working compromise between the GSK and the 701. Thus, if I had to choose only one pair, it would be the 650.

This is pretty much the point. Many of the more expesive models are better in one area or another, but for overall musical enjoyment the 650 comes out on top in the end.

 

[rogue]

I've compared the HD-650's to many phones within their price range, including the AKG K701's, Sony CD3000's, Beyer 880's, and I've always found myself going back to the 650's.

I really prefer a warm, if not quite realistic, sound signature and I find that my ears are really sensitive to large amounts of treble. Thus, while some of the phones I had earlier did several things better than the 650's, I could not stand to listen to them for any significant period of time, and that is certainly a deal-breaker. I can listen to the 650's for hours on end without an ounce of fatigue, and quite frankly, I don't plan on leaving the Senn camp anytime soon. Plus, I always found the Senns to be more euphonically pleasing than anything else I have yet to hear. Bring on the HD-800's

 

[rsaavedra]

At meets I have compared the HD650 with the PS1 and the L3000. I disliked the excessive bass in the PS1, and the L3000 really didn´t grab my attention. Not that I dislike anything in particular on it, but nothing grabbed me either.

Also heard the SA5000 with music by Bjork and sounded good, but still, the HD650+Zu remains my reference. (Well, and the HP2, but driven by a Microzotl; haven´t heard it on my rig)