HD-650 burn-in?
May 9, 2018 at 6:02 AM Post #76 of 111
Thanks to the people who post changes in direct comparisons to a control headphone before and after burn it.. for example HD650 vs other HD650 or even HD650 vs. Other headphone,
this is part of the scientific method.

I got my HD650 yesterday used. i compared them with my senn HD430 from the 1980's (600ohms and similar sound signature) and my AKG K702 (older one with lean bass).
out of the three i liked the HD430 best, the AKG K702 second and the HD650 last. not because of sound signature , but because of sound quality.
like other previous posters, i also found the HD650 sound to be lumped together in the high bass and low mids., cluttered in the middle, like a cheap headphone..
i just thought it was the sound signature of the headphone until i read this thread and found others heard the same thing before they burned them in.

but the reason i liked the HD430 and AKG K702 better was because right now they have a more integrated sound that is smoother and sweeter.

Its as if on the HD650 some of the harmonics of the sound were not connected to the fundamental of the same sound. harshness, rough edges , especially on the attack.
in other words, harmonics are coming off as distortion, or the harmonics are distorting to be more direct about it.

thinking they sounded like they needed burning in, i asked the seller if they had had much use and he said he hardly used them.

so my HD650 were on pink noise all last night and morning and in the 12 hours since then some Saxophone Jazz music all day
in any case i will continue to use pink, and some brown noise and a variety of music types .

I'm hoping to find that these cans will turn into the gold standard of studio reference headphones that everyone swears by, the end game headphone that is fatigue free, natural, detailed in the midrange with the relaxed treble.

I will post how things turn out . i will be comparing them with my HD430 and K702 again. i hope the harshness goes away .
 
May 9, 2018 at 9:17 AM Post #77 of 111
Thanks to the people who post changes in direct comparisons to a control headphone before and after burn it.. for example HD650 vs other HD650 or even HD650 vs. Other headphone,
this is part of the scientific method.

I got my HD650 yesterday used. i compared them with my senn HD430 from the 1980's (600ohms and similar sound signature) and my AKG K702 (older one with lean bass).
out of the three i liked the HD430 best, the AKG K702 second and the HD650 last. not because of sound signature , but because of sound quality.
like other previous posters, i also found the HD650 sound to be lumped together in the high bass and low mids., cluttered in the middle, like a cheap headphone..
i just thought it was the sound signature of the headphone until i read this thread and found others heard the same thing before they burned them in.

but the reason i liked the HD430 and AKG K702 better was because right now they have a more integrated sound that is smoother and sweeter.

Its as if on the HD650 some of the harmonics of the sound were not connected to the fundamental of the same sound. harshness, rough edges , especially on the attack.
in other words, harmonics are coming off as distortion, or the harmonics are distorting to be more direct about it.

thinking they sounded like they needed burning in, i asked the seller if they had had much use and he said he hardly used them.

so my HD650 were on pink noise all last night and morning and in the 12 hours since then some Saxophone Jazz music all day
in any case i will continue to use pink, and some brown noise and a variety of music types .

I'm hoping to find that these cans will turn into the gold standard of studio reference headphones that everyone swears by, the end game headphone that is fatigue free, natural, detailed in the midrange with the relaxed treble.

I will post how things turn out . i will be comparing them with my HD430 and K702 again. i hope the harshness goes away .
Yeah don't expect any over night magic, 1000 hours till these baby's open up to be honest. Then angels will accend from heaven. Mark my words.
 
May 9, 2018 at 9:32 AM Post #78 of 111
Yeah don't expect any over night magic, 1000 hours till these baby's open up to be honest. Then angels will accend from heaven. Mark my words.

Excellent! Only 3 hours and 12 minutes until my pair are ready.
 
May 9, 2018 at 1:37 PM Post #80 of 111
There is no such a thing called burn in.

Burn in is like the Ether and the Unicorns: it only exists in our imagination, it's a mind phaenomenon.

I found new headphones variable in the amount of burn in they require. My Beyerdynamic DT880 changed very little with use. The Sennheiser HD650 sounded very lo-fi when new. Yes there is an acclimatisation period with headphones but that wasn't enough to account for the sound. I found the HD600 required much less burn in. Perhaps it's related to the deviation from neutrality. It seems more complex than that however. The design of the earpads and the transducer account for the perception of burn-in. I am sure it's possible to design a set with no burn-in and one that changes throughout its use lifespan.
 
Mar 3, 2020 at 3:30 AM Post #83 of 111
I have an aprox 7 years old HD650 unit (silver, not black version) that I borrowed from a friend. I liked it a lot. Last weekend I have received a brand new HD650 unit (of course, black box, silver version) and they sound VERY different. Older HD650 sounds clearer, more open, more detailed and more delicate and “airier”.
I am giving the new HD650 a lot of hours with music and Isotek enhancer CD to see if things change for better (i.e. reaching same sound as the Older HD650) but for now the old unit sounds just A LOT better than the brand new unit. In fact the new unit sounds simply bad and, if I’d have not the old unit at hand, I would returned the new HD650 so muffled, dark and boring is the sound.
I think they have changed something with the newer hd650. My new 6xx sound like bad and inferior to my hd 598. Maybe because they are using some shared parts with 660s , they new 650 sound closer to 660s than older ones. I really don't like the new ones. They sound conjested and sharp. Worse than 660s , worse than older 650s.
Anyway there is no scientific proof for burn in. But I will do few hours just to make sure.
 
Mar 3, 2020 at 5:44 AM Post #84 of 111
I think they have changed something with the newer hd650. My new 6xx sound like bad and inferior to my hd 598. Maybe because they are using some shared parts with 660s , they new 650 sound closer to 660s than older ones. I really don't like the new ones. They sound conjested and sharp. Worse than 660s , worse than older 650s.
Anyway there is no scientific proof for burn in. But I will do few hours just to make sure.

Its probably because the pads on your new 6XX haven't been worn in yet.
 
Mar 3, 2020 at 8:59 AM Post #85 of 111
Its probably because the pads on your new 6XX haven't been worn in yet.

Bingo, this is what actually changes the sound of these headphones over time, not any mythical "burn-in"
 
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Apr 23, 2020 at 11:23 AM Post #86 of 111
A couple points on personal experience and a couple of questions about burn in if I may.

I’ve just bought a pair of Sennheiser HD650s and have been listening to them every evening for 4 or 5 hours (incase brain burn in and the pads settling is real) and have had them playing a playlist of white/pink/brown noise, 5 minutes of silence and a selection of albums from my collection (in case burn in is real). I’m playing native flac files and streaming Qobuz through Audirvana into a Chord Qutest into a Little Dot tube amp which has been on for at least half an hour before I listen and the tubes aren’t new or old. I live alone so there wasn’t any background noise. I’m coming from beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO which I really don’t like.

These are my experiences.

Got them out of the box and plugged them in straight away. I was expecting to be met with a dull sound coming from the DTs but was pleasantly surprised by a really deep, clear open sound with brilliant imaging, separation and clarity of instruments and vocals especially and straight away I was noticing details I’d never noticed before on recordings I’m very familiar with. There was a lot of noticeable distortion though which made Thom Yorke sound like he had a lisp and there wasn’t much decay on symbols.

Second night, 24 hours in, the distortion was there but the instrument separation had gone, the imaging wasn’t there and the soundstage height and depth had gone completely. I was just met with a thin strip of noise where you couldn’t tell where the sound of each instrument ended and another began. It was just a mess but I didn’t notice any significant change in frequency response the sound was just garbled.

Third night, basically sounded the same but the distortion was less noticeable but then something weird happened. I was listening to a bit of Credence when over a period of about minute, the sound opened up, I could clearly hear the separation and imaging of the instruments, I could visualise them perfectly, the soundstage had depth and height. After about 4 or 5 minutes the sound went back to as it was which was disappointing.

Forth night the distortion had reduced further but basically sounded the same as the second night.

Fifth night which was last night and approaching the sacred 100 hours burn in period, the sound opened up again for about 15 minutes this time but flattened out again though feels a bit more open than before.

I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing (I can’t send them back at the moment anyway as in lockdown) to see what happens. It’s been a fascinating experience so far and the difference in the quality of sound has been massive so whether its brain burn in/psychoacoustics and the pads or it is indeed the headphones burning in there is something definitely going on.

So the questions I have are if it is my brain getting used to them surly this would happen on everything. I.e. changing the eq settings, going from lossy to lossless listening to a new bit of kit in as showroom/mates house? Yet it only seems to be reported on people with new equipment.

When people do tests, they use sign wave sweeps and pink noise to measure the frequency response. However, from my experience, the frequency response hasn’t changed as such, all the information is there it’s just not being presented in the right way. Is there anyway of measuring instrument separation, imaging and what we would perceived as position in a 3D soundstage? Can this be done with actual music as opposed to single note sign waves and constant noise of the entire frequency spectrum.

Can you suggest how conformation bias, psychoacoustics, brain burn in or the fit of the pads would cause the experiences I’ve had?

Finally, has anyone ever put a new pair of headphones in a clamp instead of a false head so the pads don’t come into it, closed miked them with sensitive microphones and recorded the same song for 300 hours (hopefully Bird is the Word) so we can actually hear if there is a noticeable difference?
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 12:36 PM Post #87 of 111
This topic is gonna be re-hashed endlessly here as it always has been, but it's important to keep in mind that human beings make terrible measuring equipment.

A pair of headphones might sound different to you on night two vs night four because someone cut you off when you were driving home an hour earlier and you're a little more tense. Someone listening to something at different times and thinking they sound different is simply not useful information to begin to form any notion that something has actually changed other than that person's perceptions, in my opinion.
 
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May 15, 2020 at 3:41 AM Post #88 of 111
I've just picked up a pair of the 6XX from a Melbourne audio store because they were a ridiculous price for a pair of these ($AUS228). I got them because have some 580s which I love but don't do the bass in some of the EDM, Rock, etc the justice it deserves. I'm listening to them now and am a bit ambivalent about the sound at the moment. They struggled with the bass from my Deadmau5 CD - bloated, coarse and sometimes distorted. I know that this is not how they are meant to sound.

Now here is my dilemma. The last four sets of phones/iems I bought were all second hand and, if the burn in theory is correct, already burnt in. If I had bought the full priced 650s I would be a bit disappointed at this stage. The other part of the dilemma is the other cans that I own. I have 3 sets of Flares - the R2As, the Pro and the Golds. The latter sound magnificent and comparing the 6XX to them is unfair. However, I would not have expected the distortion I heard from the Senns.

So I might go down the burn in road and see what happens. One thing stands out - these are very musical headphones and if the sound can improve they'll be great. I'm listening to a Beethoven symphony at the moment and really enjoying it. I'll see how they do with chamber music.
 
May 15, 2020 at 5:02 AM Post #89 of 111
I’m now a few weeks past the 300 hour mark and I can tell you that I am in no way regretting getting them and going through the pain of the burn in process (or whatever it is). Bass wise, I don’t think the bass gets any deeper but it really tightens up and becomes much more defined. However, if you experience anything like I did, they sounded great but distorted for the first 50 or so hours then closed up completely and everything was just a thin band of midrange honk for ages with no separation of instruments, no imaging an everything sounded stuck together somehow. Around 100-150 hours they opened up again, most of the distortion had gone and for the next 150 hours they slowly refined and around 300 they became what they should be.

Of course, going through this excruciating experience during lockdown ended up with me stood their shouting “Hurry Up” at a pair of headphones for several weeks. It’s lucky I live alone otherwise people may have been concerned for their wellbeing in my company.

Now I’ve gone through all this, I really have taken a shine to these things. The negatives for me are they are shy on deep, deep sub bass a little although that could be due to being used to hearing stuff on bass accentuated kit. Sometimes, I feel some energy and excitement are missing from full on rock tracks and things can sound a little distant and less immediate (if that makes sense).

The good far, far outweighs the bad though. The slight treble roll off means that even bad, sibilant sounding recordings never wear you out, the 3D imagining makes you feel like you can actually look into the mix, listening to vinyl is like wrapping up in a comfort blanket and makes you feel like everything will be OK even in the worst global pandemic in living memory. The soundstage isn’t massive but that’s a good thing. When you listen to mid 60’s Beatles records in stereo it doesn’t sound like they’ve already split up and it feels like you’re actually sat in a concert hall.

I’m a bass player and both double and electric bass have never sounded so good as from these things. You really feel the play between kick and bass.

I’ve been listening to a lot of Beethoven too. Klemperer’s 6th sounds divine but the real star of the show for me is the late string quartets by the Takács Quartet. They used to sound too scratchy and shrill now they sound totally beautiful especially the 14th and 15th and Grosse Fuge. Try and listen to them before the sound closes up for several days if you can.
 

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