HD 580 vs HD 600 w/ plain poweramp headphone jack?

[Gxcad]

Hi,

I'm really interested in the HD600 but I recently found out I can get the HD580 for about $60 less and I heard that maybe I would hear no difference without a dedicated headphone amp. I plan to use the headphone I get in a plain budjet end power amp (audiosource amp 2 headphone jack ~$250 power amp). The amp is rated for 80wpc at 8ohm for the speakers, I don't know how good the headphone jack for it is as I have never heard a dedicated headphone amp for reference but it sounds fine for my HD 570 which are quite a bit easier to drive. My guess is that it would drive headphones better than a portable player but not quite as well as a dedicated headphone amp. My question is does anyone have any opinions that can help inform me as to whether I might or might not hear an improvement in the HD 600 compared to the HD 580? I plan to use stock cable. Thanks for any help

.

-Ken

 

[Duncan]

Hi Gxcad,

In my opinion, its only with a half decent dedicated headphone amplifier... and with an aftermarket cable, that you can clearly hear the difference between the two...

Running stock cable through a normal amp... I'd be very hard pushed to tell the difference...

$60 difference... I dunno... if you ever plan to upgrade to a dedicated amp and an aftermarket cable... you may kick yourself... then again... would you really miss what you never had?

That choice is yours

 

[Eagle_Driver]

The problem here is not the headphones, but the headphone jack electronics. You see, most headphone jacks built into receivers, integrated amps and power amps are run off of the same loudspeaker power amp section, filtered by a few very cheap, really crappy capacitors and resistors. Worse, all headphone jacks built into receivers, integrated amps and speaker power amps have a really high output impedance - in the neighbourhood of 200 to 500 ohms. That can really screw up the sound quality from most headphones (especially those whose rating is lower than the output impedance), particularly in the bass.

 

[JaZZ]

If you're an audiophile or planning to become one, I'd go for the HD 600. I guess even with a not so high-end amp the edge is audible, and if you have further ambitions, you're better equipped. If you want to enjoy your music in an non-critical way without permanently minding the sound, the HD 580 will suit you well.

 

[Sovkiller]

This is a very nice amp, with extremelly very nice sound, comparable to high end tubed ones, and the headphone jack is also excellent more than 110db signal/noise, is very quiet, I own one, but is better with low impedance cans, 330Ohms resistor in series with the output, believe me, I own it, with the HD600 is a little muddy but acceptable with the Sony CD3000 is amazing, but they are low impedance....but you are right, without a dedicated amp there is no difference between them, even with one according to some members the sound is still very close....

 

[Gxcad]

Hey guys thanks for the replies! It seems there is a small difference but that it may be hard to hear without a good headphone amp. Perhaps I'll just splurge and get both for an in home audition to see for myself and sell off the one I don't like as much

. I wish I could do that, and its not totally out of the question, but I think I'll go for the 600 and just not look back

. Yes the Amp 2 is a great budjet power amp, but like I said I'm not so sure about the headphone jack on it, seems to sound good to me though..

How many hours of break-in is recommended for either headphone?

Thanks for the help and I'll try to update the thread as things progress!

-Ken

 

[Duncan]

Gxcad...

If i'm honest, comparing my HD580s that I put 100s of hours on, to the HD600s that I bought from Bangraman (that so far as I know barely had 10 hours on the clock)... apart from the initial difference between the two 'phones with regard to resolution, i'd say that burn-in isn't overly important with these 'phones...

If it IS neccesary, i'd be a bit disheartened to know that the HD600s would aim to sound worse after burn-in...

I think the biggest 'burn-in' with these 'phones, is with your own ears, getting adjusted to that much smoother sound than is on offer with most other headphones... once you can hear through the smoothness, to the great detail on offer... THAT is when they (or... YOU) are burnt-in

Good luck!

 

[dd3mon]

I disagree. I found the burn-in for my 600's made a significant difference, aside from just mental. Try playing some very bass-heavy music through them at loud volumes overnight or for some other long period of time. 10 hours of "normal" use really had very little effect on the sound compared to a few nights worth of bass-heavy music at slightly louder than I'd care to listen to volumes.

I remember when a friend of mine got his 580's I thought they sounded bad out of the box (just used them once or twice in the first couple days he had them), before I bought my 600's I listened to his 580's again again and loved the sound through them (this is a year later). The same held true for my 600's - I was disapointed for the first 2-3 days (w/ constant burnin) but then things started to change for the better and now I couldn't be happier even with my crappy source.. well, maybe I could be happier, hence looking into a good amp (then source.. then cables.. ahhhh!)

-dd3mon

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Can you do DIY work? The impeder is a simple gadget that can make your speaker amp work better with headphones.

(see link in signature below)

 

[Gxcad]

Hi Joe=),

Yes I have seen that thread and I could probably do the soldering required to make the impeder, but I cannot for the life of me figure out WHY it would help (I'm not too handy on detailed electric and resistor properties). What exactly does it do in the simplist terms possible? Draw more power from the amp? Lower the impedance on the cans?

Thanks,

-Ken

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Lower the output impedance of the amp. Or, looking at it another way, make the impedance response of the headphones flatter to extract a flatter frequency response from the amp.

This thread may enlighten you a bit: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=22613

 

[wallijonn]

man, with something so beautiful, i'd just wire in a 1/4" jack right to the speaker outputs. at 80 wpc @ 8 ohms, that equals about 2 wpc @ 300 ohms, plenty to drive the HD600.

 

[Gxcad]

Guess I'll never figure out the impeder, although I sorta get the jist of it (thanks). I never thought of just plugging the phone to the speaker outs, and I have the room since there is a speaker "B" option, but how would I split the stereo signal? (you know, a pair of speakers would have 4 wires coming from it, one positive one negetive from each speaker but a headphone would only have one wire coming from it).

Obviously you are familiar with the amp2 Walli

-Ken

 

[wallijonn]

GX,

You'd start with a small enclosure, install a 1/4" jack (it must be the pro type (has a detent tab so that the headphone can't be accidentally pulled out), and the two ground wires would go to the 1 ground tab). then you would make sure that the amp is completely off before changing headphones (or inserting or removing the plug) and the volume controls must ALWAYS be turned to minimum when powereing down and up. even 2 watts is enough to damage the HD600 though, as 500mw is nominal for most high impedance headphones. don't be surprised if the volume has to be turned up to 1/2. it all depends on the type of volume control, if it is analogue, you'll have plenty of control until about 90%. if it is a resistor gangled or non-logrithmic then 1/2 will be 1/2 power, 1/4 will be 1/4 power and 3/4 will be 3/4 power.

do you have a schematic of the audiosource amp 2? my crown d60 headphone jack is directly connected to the speaker leads. there is no resistor in series with the speaker output circuit. such a resistor will destroy the damping factor of the amp. and you can not use such a setup (or at least shouldn't use such a setup) for low impedance headphones. if they were grados, the grados could then see about 20 watts.

but it would be perfect for dt931s whose impedance goes beyond 700 ohms. the amp would be able to supply as much voltage or current as was necessary without distortion. for 300 ohm headphones, the 'perfect' amp would be about 30 watts (or 25 - 40), which is why i went with the D60 (35 wpc). for the dt931, to get 1 watt@680 ohms, i would need about a 100 wpc amp. (soon... very soon...). crazy, ain't i?