[Andrew Rieger]

I never leave it on overnight but I do turn it on in the morning before I leave to work so it gets 8-9 hours of warmup before I listen. 

 

[alpovs]

Thank you. I couldn't find a post where Schiit guys recommend the always on thing. Maybe going from idle temperature to operation temperature puts less stress on components, as opposite to go from room temperature to decoding temp? Guess not, but..

Anyway, I'm getting mine on May.

I think they never recommended it. It's an urban myth unless somebody can point to a post or other evidence that they did. That post by Baldr I found is the closest to the "urban myth" origin and it seemed sarcastic to me.

 

[Letmebefrank]

Here you go. From the man himself. No urban myth here.

I think they never recommended it. It's an urban myth unless somebody can point to a post or other evidence that they did. That post by Baldr I found is the closest to the "urban myth" origin and it seemed sarcastic to me.

Indeed - any of the Schiit mb converters function (convert digits to analog) from the get go (after a brief stabilization mode - a few seconds).


As does the Modi Multibit.  (Last time I checked, the thread topic)  Now, if you check our website, you will realize that we make no binding statements with respect to how our equipment "sounds".  Any such statements are anecdotal and impossible to prove.  I am completely willing to reveal my experience with respect to sound, even a few generalizations.  These are only my opinions, however, and YMMV.  Here are a few:  The best sounding DACs, regardless of cost, are multibit.  The more bits in the mb, the longer it takes to sound at its best.  It takes heroic design in ds converter  design.  They inherently want to sound like ass.  The above is strictly my opinion, for emphasis.  YMMV, YMMV, and YMMV.  The next three sentences are fact:  The only advantage of ds is cost/performance at the low (i.e. cell phone) end stratum.  The designs are small, low power, and cheap.  That is why we design our lower-end stuff around ds. 

My suggestion to @pkcpga
would be that, since he apparently disagrees with anecdotal-based opinions, he may be happier in the Sound Science threads where his view that converters are immediately upon power-up proper to audition may be more universally accepted.  It also may be a far better venue for his USB design philosophies.

The INL referred to is integral non-linearity.  Google it and you will find a wiki which hopefully will be helpful.

 

[alpovs]

Where is the recommendation to leave it always on?

 

[Letmebefrank]

Sorry, that was his reasoning why, here is his recommendation.

I have never, but never, been exposed to any solid state D/A converter that did not benefit from leaving it on 24/7.  Period.  Either designed by me or anyone else.  Ever.  What is true is that delta sigma D/A converters seem to be less pronounced in those effects than multibit converters, they still benefit. 

Another aside:  the Theta D/A converters I built twenty to thirty-ish years ago seem to have less of this difference today.  I do not know why.  I only design(ed) them.

 

[Letmebefrank]

Also, here is a Screenshot of the manual for the yggdrasil. The chips in gumby, bimby and Mimby all work basically the same but take less time to come into spec based on the number of bits.

 

[alpovs]

OK. This is from a different forum and a year apart from the other post but I guess it still applies to "any solid state D/A converter".
If you go to that post and read the next post it says "In the past Jason laughed at this...."
 
My problem with the reasoning is that the idle temperature is as much different from the operating temperature as it is from the room temperature. With this logic Modi Multibit should not only be always on but constantly playing music.

 

[Letmebefrank]

As to the temperature thing...

It is not the DSP which needs to thermally stabilize.  It is the DAC chip which needs to settle into its INL spec.  Regret the slow comment; I have been distracted by the Schiit Show.

Because it is smaller and 16 bit, it is relatively quick. (24 hours is most of the way.)

 

[alpovs]

As to the temperature thing...
 

 
 

 
Because it is smaller and 16 bit, it is relatively quick. (24 hours is most of the way.)

Oh well. Can I believe it? The DAC chip in Yggdrasil is smaller and higher bits (21).
 
AD5791 in Yggdrasil, the page before last:
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD5791.pdf
6.6x4.5 (mm?)
 
AD5547 in Modi Multibit, 16 bit, last page:
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD5547_5557.pdf
9.8x4.5
 
How can the heat-up time depend on the number of bits??? It should depend on the TPD. And the temperature of the chip is probably different when it is idle and when it is doing something.
 
The chips are so small they should heat up to constant temperature in a few minutes.

 

[alpovs]

That manual has an interesting spelling of the word "magic". "Magick is the art of causing changes in consciousness in conformity with the Will." I wonder if it was intentional. So much in audiophile spirit

 

[Letmebefrank]

Yeah its not really the temperature, it's the chip working out errors in itself, and the more bits the longer that takes. In the yggdrasil manual I believe it was explained incorrectly (however the recommendation doesn't change) and in these forums it was misconstrued that the reasoning is heat. It has been explained by both Jason and Mike that the reasoning for leaving them on is the chips INL spec.

Here is one I've already quoted above:

It is not the DSP which needs to thermally stabilize.  It is the DAC chip which needs to settle into its INL spec.  Regret the slow comment; I have been distracted by the Schiit Show.

I might take the time to find the other posts tomorrow if nobody does so before then, but for now I'm going to sleep.

Please Baldr or Jason Stoddard step in and end this lol

 

[alpovs]

While looking at the specs I found that the chip used in Yggdrasil is 20 bit but Schiit's site for Yggdrasil claims 21 bits. I am confused now but it is out of topic for this forum.

 

[winders]

   
 

Oh well. Can I believe it? The DAC chip in Yggdrasil is smaller and higher bits (21).
 
AD5791 in Yggdrasil, the page before last:
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD5791.pdf
6.6x4.5 (mm?)
 
AD5547 in Modi Multibit, 16 bit, last page:
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD5547_5557.pdf
9.8x4.5
 
How can the heat-up time depend on the number of bits??? It should depend on the TPD. And the temperature of the chip is probably different when it is idle and when it is doing something.
 
The chips are so small they should heat up to constant temperature in a few minutes.

You may be happier in the Sound Sciene forum. Personally, I would suggest listening to the DAC designer. But you do what you want. Just don't get all indignant when people here don't agree with you.

 

[Baldr]

YMMV, YMMV, and YMMV.  Telling anyone what they should, can, or can not hear requires a dictator.  This is for fun - if one takes things too seriously, you run the risk of looking angry and constipated, like the vendors and customers on the highest floors of the shows purveying Ferrari priced audio systems.

 

[alpovs]

 
YMMV, YMMV, and YMMV.  Telling anyone what they should, can, or can not hear requires a dictator.  This is for fun - if one takes things too seriously, you run the risk of looking angry and constipated, like the vendors and customers on the highest floors of the shows purveying Ferrari priced audio systems.

I am trying to understand your recommendations but the facts don't add up. Sorry, I am a scientist. I can't just blindly believe, I am not religious.