[Russ Arcuri]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle The award should go to the best "performance", regardless of skin color, hype, financial or moral status.

It did. Quote:

But PC selections are also wrong. It becomes like "Oh, no black female has even won a leading role Oscar, and Oprah is in attendance, so let's give it to Halle Berry, even though she sucks as an actress.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You can't have seen the movie or her performance. She received the Oscar for the very reason she should have -- it was the best performance of the year.

 

[jbannow]

She is very nice on the eyes ... I thought she looked elegant yet sexy in that dress. My fiance was crying during her speech ... She thought it was rather moving. I'm glad to see an African-American woman finally take the Oscar

- Jeff

 

[RMSzero]

All acting considerations aside, the thing that pisses me off is that so many people on the internet especially have been saying "oh, she won because she was black, affirmative action, if Russel Crowe was black things would be different, 2 black people won stuff and a black person hosted the show, reverse discrimination."

Shaddup.

If a white actor and actress win best actor & actress, no one bitches. If Australian actors and actresses win best actor and best actress (Golden globes, I think this year) no one bitches. But because they are both black (regardless of what I think of Halle Berry, there are some REALLY good black actors & actresses out there without a doubt) things are "fixed." Gimme a break. It's the oscars, of course things are fixed. Don't cheapen it even more than it already is by playing the race card.

I realize that it's the affirmative action, quotas, "give the minorities a helping hand" type movement that has caused people to be suspicious any time black people win things, but come on. I bitch about PC'ness and quotas as much as the next guy, because it is frustrating, but when a black person succeeds at this level and you criticize it because they are black, when if someone of any other race had one (ie white) you woudln't have said anything about their race, well that looks suspiciously like racism to me. Especially since you don't say anything about who you would have preferred to win, or any flaws in Halle's performance. Anyone, regardless of race, you say? Anyone but the black woman, it seems, and you wouldn't have complained.

A black woman won a gold medal in the olympics for the first time this year too, was that fixed as well? Damn, they shouldn't have let her win just to boost ratings. It wasn't figure skating, so maybe it wasn't fixed. Maybe it's taken until 2002 for black women to get to this point in society.

I wondered earlier how someone I thought wasn't a very good actress could win, and now I've been told that she was, in fact, quite good in that movie. Now I want to see it to judge for myself. But I'm not going to stoop to the level of criticizing her win because of her race, especially since I haven't seen the movie.

 

[delenda est Sony]

We are moving away from breasts and into the world of politics, always a bad thing!

Beagle,for shame! To even suggest that it is at all justifiable for some madmen to blow U.S residents up because their country has the Oscars and a corresponding entertainment industry is not a responsible statement. Yes, Americans are self indulgent; so too are any Canadians, Swedes, Pakistanis, etc who can afford to be. That's human nature. And yes many are starving, but there is a constant flow of aid from developed nations including the U.S., more so than at any other point in human history. Moreover, unless you and Osama have been chatting, I did not recall starving people anywhere being used to justify the 9/11 attacks. I believe Osama is more concerned about the U.S. military, political, and cultural influence in the Islamic world.

And yes American entertainment is junk for the most part, but "cultural contamination" as a basis for massacre is the thinking of tyrants, fools, and bigots who feel threatened by Baywatch reruns. Call U.S. culture bombastic, expensive and self-indulgent if you will, but please don't slaughter us for it!!

Beagle, I know you're a decent chap from your involvement in the 890 debacle, so I assume your post was written in a moment of anger. Please bear in mind though that those of us who know people who died horribly on 9/11 really do not need that event linked to the Oscars as possible justification for the atrocity...

In other less controversial matters, I saw Monsters Ball. It was Ok, not stunning. Should Halle have won? Well, she was competent, but not amazing, IMO. If one expects justice at the Oscars though, one is living in a gentler kinder world. She was not atrocious, so her win is not too troubling. Now if she won for Swordfish, _that_ would have been egregious...

 

[jbannow]

Quote:

Originally posted by delenda est Sony We are moving away from breasts and into the world of politics, always a bad thing!

Indeed it is ...

Quote:

Originally posted by delenda est Sony In other less controversial matters, I saw Monsters Ball. It was Ok, not stunning. Should Halle have won? Well, she was competent, but not amazing, IMO. If one expects justice at the Oscars though, one is living in a gentler kinder world. She was not atrocious, so her win is not too troubling. Now if she won for Swordfish, _that_ would have been egregious...

I always look at the Oscars as a media bought popularity contest, and this is more wood for the fire IMO. I thought she did a fine job in Monster's Ball, but it was not the best female performance I saw in 2001. All the same, I'm glad it came out the way it did.

- Jeff

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by delenda est Sony Beagle,for shame! To even suggest that it is at all justifiable for some madmen to blow U.S residents up because their country has the Oscars and a corresponding entertainment industry is not a responsible statement. Yes, Americans are self indulgent; so too are any Canadians, Swedes, Pakistanis, etc who can afford to be. That's human nature. And yes many are starving, but there is a constant flow of aid from developed nations including the U.S., more so than at any other point in human history. Moreover, unless you and Osama have been chatting, I did not recall starving people anywhere being used to justify the 9/11 attacks. I believe Osama is more concerned about the U.S. military, political, and cultural influence in the Islamic world.

So you don't believe my Oscar self-indulgence reference was related to (c) cultural? Did I state that the Oscars was the sole reason for the terrorist attacks of September 11? I gave it as an example of wasteful self indulgences that rub other cultures the wrong way. You don't think there's any connection?

We saw, we felt, we cried, many suffered. Yet nothing has changed. The impact of 9/11 is fading away and Americans (and the rest of the world, except terrorists) have gone back to their regular daily/annual distractions. People like watching and being entertained by things with a lot of attention focused on them instead of waking up and facing the reality of the potential threats in the world today. Yes, other countries and cultures are self-indulgent, but normally for religious or spiritual reasons, Oktoberfest notwithstanding. Until Americans realize why these attacks took place and make changes in their attitudes, don't expect them to happen again and again.

 

[Audio-Me]

Yada yada yada. Did Ms. Berry deserve her award? Simple yes or no. I don't care, awards don't mean **** to me, it's the movies, not the people.

 

[delenda est Sony]

Beagle---

Well, America is eminently visible and much more affluent than most other nations. I think these factors in and of themselves will always create enmity from some. To look for explanations for terrorism in the Oscars is an entirely too sympathetic and facile approach. Bin Laden would have done what he did if there were no Oscars, and even if every American read Foreign Policy Journal weekly and was eminently well informed on world affairs. He hates us because his cloistered view of what Islam shoule be is threatened by the West as exemplified by America.

And yes some of the values challenging Islam are questionable: exploitative global corporatism, junk culture, conspicious consumption, and tacky award shows, but others are unequivocally positive: religious freedom, the rule of popular law, basic rights for women, etc. Should the West and America renounce everything they stand for to accommodate madmen?

Nor should we live in a state of constant emergency either; at least not yet. All during human history on both a personal and a national level, we turn away from sustained crisis and seek escapism in triviality. Hence the TV in the hospital emergency room. I think it is an oversimplification to criticize America for having forgotten the lessons of 9/11. Let's see what the near future brings...

Well, let's try and move back to film and mammary criticism here in this thread. 9/11 is way off topic, even for a Members Lounge thread...

I guess Beagle we can at least agree that the Oscars are a silly and stupid spectacle. I guess I just can't see the whole issue of culture clash as a cause for bloodshed in the modern world. I feel more comfortable with "proper" reasons for warfare, like trade opportunities, oil, and
territory...

 

[srapps55]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle Little things yes, other peoples indulgences and ego trips, no. People get self gratification with headphones. I don't think anybody gets self gratification or pleasure watching a bunch of foppish millionaires battling it out for the most attention.

You obviously haven't been to an executive board meeting at a large corporation!

 

[KR...]

What the hell happen to this thread?

BTW, even though Halle's Mom, who was sitting next to her, is white, no one calls her half white?

What if she looked more like her mom and less mixed, do you think people would still call her black?

And why are black people called black, when they have brown skin.

Somethings to think about.

 

[jpelg]

even though Halle's Mom, who was sitting next to her, is white, no one calls her half white?

Nor does she, at least in any recent interview or public commentary regarding the "impact" of her award or what it means to her.

 

[KR...]

Quote:

Originally posted by jpelg even though Halle's Mom, who was sitting next to her, is white, no one calls her half white? Nor does she, at least in any recent interview or public commentary regarding the "impact" of her award or what it means to her.

That's pretty mess up right there.

BTW, I can't be the only one who thinks all this PC stuff is just as racist than the old Jim Crow stuff, just in a different way.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ Arcuri Denzel should have won for his absolutely stunning work in Malcolm X too, but the Academy voters were mostly old fogies who realized that year that Al Pacino deserved something for all the great work he had done over the years, and gave him the pity vote for his mediocre work in Scent of A Woman.

NO KIDDING -- one of the biggest jokes in Oscar history, IMO. There are plenty of times when Pacino had a good chance at an Oscar, but Denzel's work in X remains one of the best character portrayals of all time.

In fact, IMO Denzel should have 4 Oscars by now: the two he got for Glory and Training Day, for X, and for Philadelphia. I thought he was much better than Tom Hanks -- his role was much more difficult IMO.

 

[Russ Arcuri]

Quote:

Originally posted by KR... BTW, even though Halle's Mom, who was sitting next to her, is white, no one calls her half white?

A naive sentiment. Historically, going all the way back to the days of slavery, white culture did not accept mixed-parent children as 'white,' no matter how light-skinned they appeared to be. They were (excuse the language, but it's historically accurate) 'colored' just the same as if they didn't have any 'white' blood in them at all. There were actually laws in some parts of the southern U.S. stating that if you had so much as a single great-grandparent (i.e., one out of eight direct ancestors) who was black, you were considered 'colored.' Look up the definitions of "quadroon" and "octoroon" sometime.

African Americans who refer to themselves and think of themselves as black despite having white ancestors do so because that is how most of society thinks of them.

 

[Audio-Me]

I don't even get why people fuss about racial background, why the **** do they care? Do they have a little bit of prejudice and/or (list your favorite race) supremacy in their blood?
You could be a mix of ten difference races, and you could call yourself any one of them, combination of them, or all of them, you have blood that can prove so. Hell, people with 1% native american blood get labled as indian.

Awards are stupid, but I feel that both Washington and Berry deserved theirs. Not everyone has to like someones performance for them to deserve recognition for it (award), great acting is still great acting, regardless of peoples negative opinions.