Had to start over, changing my approach!

[ruinedx]

So, due to reasons I won't go into that involved the loss of all of my original headphone gear (noted as "retired" in my sig) that I spent many years experimenting with to obtain the perfect combo, I am wading back into the waters.

I am taking a different approach this time, last time it was all big expensive stuff that required exotic equipment combinations to achieve their best.

This new setup, I'm going with stuff that doesnt require a lot of power or exotics

So to start with:
DAC/Amp: Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital Edition '23 (Dual Mono ESS 9038Q2M DAC + 100mw @ 32ohm HPA)
Headphone 1: Grado RS1x (Music, 38ohm @ 100db sensitivity)
Headphone 2: Grell OAE1 (Music, 38ohm @ 106db sensitivity)
Headphone 3: B&O H95 (Wireless music)
Headphone 4: B&O Portal (Gaming, Comms)

Kind of excited to see how this new approach goes. I haven't gotten in the Grado or Grell yet, but if the above amp is too dry I'll add a garage1217 tube amp. I am going to try this route first though, because I generally like highly detailed neutral-ish presentations but not straight neutral or harsh.

I am intrigued about this approach as theoretically it should be a sound one. The Pro-Ject amp selected is all Class A power, and while its only 100mw (ESS amp) thats more than enough for the headphones I selected. My past experience with ESS amps such as in the LG v30 have been extremely positive. This Pro-Ject dac/amp was designed by John Westlake, of Audiolab MDAC fame.

 

[NA Blur]

Welcome back into shallow waters. May your ears be blessed with the fine grooves of awesome music.

 

[ruinedx]

Welcome back into shallow waters. May your ears be blessed with the fine grooves of awesome music.

Thanks. I think what knocked me into shallow waters was when I heard the self-amplified $999 B&O H95 and I was nearly as satisfied as I was with my old multi-thousand dollar setup, even over aptxHD, and after years of tweaking the dedicated setup with different components. Seems that finding the right synergy is most important.

 

[Shane D]

Thanks. I think what knocked me into shallow waters was when I heard the self-amplified $999 B&O H95 and I was nearly as satisfied as I was with my old multi-thousand dollar setup, even over aptxHD, and after years of tweaking the dedicated setup with different components. Seems that finding the right synergy is most important.

The law of diminishing returns kicks in hard.
I have spent a fortune (for me), but finally ended up with a nice little mid-fi system that I really enjoy. Still tweaking it, but pretty happy now.

Good luck in your hunt!

 

[kbschaap]

The law of diminishing returns kicks in hard.
I have spent a fortune (for me), but finally ended up with a nice little mid-fi system that I really enjoy. Still tweaking it, but pretty happy now.

Good luck in your hunt!

In your opinion at what price level would you say diminishing returns start for dac/amps/headphones?

 

[ruinedx]

In your opinion at what price level would you say diminishing returns start for dac/amps/headphones?

I've bought a lot of gear so can answer this fairly succicntly.

IMO diminishing return range:
DACs - $250-$750 (range depends on unbalanced vs balanced and features)
Amps -$250-$1000 (range depends on unbalanced vs balanced and features)
Headphones - $500-$1500

In my example, the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 '23 Edition ($499) + Garage1217 Project Polaris ($305) + Grado RS1X ($750), sounds IMO on par in quality with the Musical Fidelity MX-DAC ($750), DNA Starlett ($2000), and HD800S ($1250). In addition, the former setup is much more versatile than the latter - the headphones can be used in more places such as sources that don't have an amp and still sound good, and the amp can be setup to work with more powerful headphones unlike the other amp I had. While there might not be as much "tube rolling" to make a 1%-5% impact on sound in some way, you have to ask yourself if you really want to spend the time and money rolling tubes vs listening to music (or buying new headphones which have a FAR larger impact on the sound than tubes).

What I would say is true, though, is that you have a larger chance of buying stuff that sounds BAD in the lower priced tier, because that's how a large percentage of the stuff sounds that is lower priced. But, if you pair things correctly as I did that doesn't have to be the case.

 

[Shane D]

In your opinion at what price level would you say diminishing returns start for dac/amps/headphones?

For me, it is about $1,000.00. I have broken that line twice for my amps and they are my favourites.
I have broken that number several times for headphones and the results have been very mixed.
On the other hand I am currently wearing a $299.00 set of headphones that I am just loving, the Aune AR5000.

There are a ton of great deals in the entry-level/mid-fi levels.
This week it is Aune AR5000 at $299.00.
In January it was FiiO FT5 at about $449.00.
Last month I ordered the Grell OAE 1. Supposed to receive in July. $349.00.

The more good deals I find in this price range, the more leery I am of going a lot higher.

 

[kbschaap]

I've bought a lot of gear so can answer this fairly succicntly.

IMO diminishing return range:
DACs - $250-$750 (range depends on unbalanced vs balanced and features)
Amps -$250-$1000 (range depends on unbalanced vs balanced and features)
Headphones - $500-$1500

In my example, the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 '23 Edition ($499) + Garage1217 Project Polaris ($305) + Grado RS1X ($750), sounds IMO on par in quality with the Musical Fidelity MX-DAC ($750), DNA Starlett ($2000), and HD800S ($1250). In addition, the former setup is much more versatile than the latter - the headphones can be used in more places such as sources that don't have an amp and still sound good, and the amp can be setup to work with more powerful headphones unlike the other amp I had. While there might not be as much "tube rolling" to make a 1%-5% impact on sound in some way, you have to ask yourself if you really want to spend the time and money rolling tubes vs listening to music (or buying new headphones which have a FAR larger impact on the sound than tubes).

What I would say is true, though, is that you have a larger chance of buying stuff that sounds BAD in the lower priced tier, because that's how a large percentage of the stuff sounds that is lower priced. But, if you pair things correctly as I did that doesn't have to be the case.

I went to local hifi shop to test different setups and I also struggled to justify the value of more expensive set ups. My limited experience with balanced and unbalanced for example (with easy to drive headphones) was pretty mixed. Initially I thought that balanced side of the amp/dac I tested sounded clearer, more articulate then after going back and forth with the unbalanced side, I just turned up the volume and felt it was indistinguishable to the balanced side.

I understand it’s subjective and that everyone’s price threshold is different but I figured I’d try to get some more opinions on here since it’s hard to trust the local hifi shop owner who is trying to sell you they’re gear.