[conquerator2]

So, I am looking for an upgrade to my U12,
Is Melodious MXU8 and Tanly Audio still considered the best choice under 500$?
I have the audio-gd DI-2014 but the USB still gives me trouble...
Thanks!

 

[Wynnytsky]

I'm going to start my PUC2 eval after this post.  It's funny when I hear accounts of pro audio stuff steps over "audiophile" branded gear
http://www.daleproaudio.com/s-85-yellowtec-puc2.aspx
It's probably the only made-in-Germany device I can afford.
 
On Aug 25th Tanly wrote me
"OK, You will be notified by email if it is available."
 
Notice he said *IF*.  I have a funny feeling we should procure as much discounted chi-fi before environmentalists interfere with production methods.  Save the Yangtze river! (after you build my Tanly)
 
I would hope this month I'll have a first hand account of the X20U's USB vs U12 vs Tanly vs PUC2.

 

[genclaymore]

I itching to hear how the JBL LSR 305 sounds with the Gustard X12, as I bought a pair of them that i got a good deal on them. I bought a dual RCA to TRS 1/4 cable as well as I using the balanced connection to my H10. Gonna be a long wait.

 

[johnzz4]

Any news on the rumored H20 amp?  Now that the X20 is shipped, I want an amp of similar caliber - though I'm still enjoying the H10.

 

[BassDigger]

 +1

 

[johnzz4]

I was digging around the different Gustard pages and someone mentioned a Nov/Dec release - they sounded reasonably confident FWIW.  Fingers crossed.  Op amp rolling will have to carry me until then...

 

[Bigdog33]

Hello all, I recently purchased an H10 amp (still on its way!) and will be using a source of a macbook pro to a schiit bifrost through its optical connection.  However, BassDigger suggested in the other Gustard thread an upgrade to clean up my digital signal to maximize my listening experience!  BassDigger what did you have in mind?

 

[BassDigger]

  Hello all, I recently purchased an H10 amp (still on its way!) and will be using a source of a macbook pro to a schiit bifrost through its optical connection.  However, BassDigger suggested in the other Gustard thread an upgrade to clean up my digital signal to maximize my listening experience!  BassDigger what did you have in mind?

 
Actually, nothing in particular.
Most discussions of this type are based around units to improve USB audio. But you're using optical.
 
Although, I'm sure that there're are a number of devices that could help. i.e. I've an old Monarchy Audio re-clocker (that I've never used), that accepts optical, re-clocks and outputs electrical (No, I'm not trying to sell; it's on another continent

). It's now old tech.
So, I'm sure that they're are plenty of similar devices available, that are more modern and use better technology.
E.g. The Cap'n was singing the praises of a Tanly unit, recently. But it's a little bit pricey, and I don't know if it accepts an optical input. But I'm sure that there's something, that's both affordable and has the right connections. As I said before, improving the signal going into your dac will reap rewards all the way through, and you're going to hear a difference with those LCDs.

 

[BassDigger]

 
 BassDigger what did you have in mind?

 
Just to elaborate a little more: 
 
I've done a little research, and it seems that there aren't too many jitter-busters that accept a toslink optical input; well, I couldn't easily find any by googling. But they exist, 'cos I've got one.
 
Anyway, my main point is about jitter; I'm always going on about it. Whilst your optical connection is doing an excellent job of insulating the rest of your gear from the nasty RFI that's bound to be bursting out of your computer, it's not the best of transmission protocols. It's because of the extra conversion process.
 
But all is not lost; what you need is a method of de-jittering that optical feed, and then it'd be best to use a better protocol to feed the re-clocked signal to your dac, spdif electrical being an improvement. Others are even better.
 
Unfortunately, neither the Tanly nor the Gustard U12 accept toslink, as an input (and I'm not sure that they do any re-clocking/jitter-busting either). But I'm sure that we can find something that's both effective and affordable, somewhere.

 

[pigfatcat]

I have been using U12 for half a year . I found that it adds smoothness and 3Dness to the presentation , no matter I put it in front of Audio GD NFB 10 SE or Chord Hugo . Typically my experience with Hugo is revealing: direct link to HD USB sounds more precise , quick and accurate , but crisp , glare and digital and somtimes harsh . Comparatively , U12 to Coaxial of Hugo sound more natural and full . 
 
I recently tried putting Elfidelity USB Booster II in front of Hugo instead of U12:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.XtI6MU&id=40230386675&_u=71d7eit2e43
 
The idea is simple: separate the power supply of the computer through the USB output and supplying a separate source to it . Although the USB power supply is used by Hugo in its HD USB input only for the purpose of handshake , in practice it affects the sound of the HD USB input significantly .  The  full potentialof the HD USB input  is limited , as Rob had mentioned before , by the EMF and power contamination of the USB power supply .
 
I found that  Elfidelity takes away at most , if not all , of the harshness and digital glare . The fullness of the sound is comparable , or in a sense better and more true than using U 12 . The resulting sound is much more lively , natural , quick and accurate compared with using U12 . For the first time I realized that I achieved the "LP sound" of Hugo described by many admirers of Hugo . In particular , the" timing" of  how each note starts , peaks and drops are presented more accurately by Hugo through the HD USB rather than the coaxial port . This is something which Rob mentioned which gave rise to the naturalness of Hugo similar  to LP sound, compared with other top DACs . 
 
It has been discussed among Hugo users whether coaxial or HD USB gives better sounding. Each has its weakness and strengths . However with the use of Elfidelity I am convinced that the HD USB port is naturally the better input of Hugo  for true reproduction of music .
 
I found that Elfidelity basically solve the problem and bring the HD USB input of Hugo to a next level, and surpassing the coxial input by a large margin . I also found , strangely , that the power suuply and even the power supply cord to Elfidelity have a significant effect on the sound . I tired attaching the USB charging chord  supplied by Elfidelity to a power adapter , direct to a Xiaomi USB power bank, and to an Orico USB Hub . The Orico Hub turns out to be the winner with  the most lively  ,quick ,  accurate and full sound. 
 
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=19833643401&spm=a1z09.2.0.0.yWslUC&_u=71d7eitea83&sku_properties=148242406:21516

 

[Bigdog33]

 ​Quote:

   
Just to elaborate a little more: 
 
I've done a little research, and it seems that there aren't too many jitter-busters that accept a toslink optical input; well, I couldn't easily find any by googling. But they exist, 'cos I've got one.
 
Anyway, my main point is about jitter; I'm always going on about it. Whilst your optical connection is doing an excellent job of insulating the rest of your gear from the nasty RFI that's bound to be bursting out of your computer, it's not the best of transmission protocols. It's because of the extra conversion process.
 
But all is not lost; what you need is a method of de-jittering that optical feed, and then it'd be best to use a better protocol to feed the re-clocked signal to your dac, spdif electrical being an improvement. Others are even better.
 
Unfortunately, neither the Tanly nor the Gustard U12 accept toslink, as an input (and I'm not sure that they do any re-clocking/jitter-busting either). But I'm sure that we can find something that's both effective and affordable, somewhere.

Thanks, BassDigger, I checked into this yesterday, and like you said, there's not a whole lot out there.  To tell the truth, I knew that jitter was a problem for USB connections, but really wasn't aware that optical signals were plagued by it too.  I did a fair amount of research into this, and what it seems I would really want is a "reclocker" that accepts optical in, but then can output to S/PDIF coaxial to my Schiit Bifrost, which has a coaxial input, which is what you said here!
 
I found the Empirical Synchro-Mesh, http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/synchro-mesh
 
But it's not really budget-friendly! It's $599, plus $100 for the coaxial output...

 

[Wynnytsky]

If that was my DAC then I'd go for this...
http://www.daleproaudio.com/s-85-yellowtec-puc2.aspx
It doesn't need drivers to work on win&mac.
One guy thinks it sounds so good he didn't bother installing the drivers (which will give you ASIO support)
 
And you'll need one of these...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Brand_Neutrik&ci=14832&N=4294550053+4229849819+4291317329
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?sku=406162&is=REG&Q=&A=details

 

[BassDigger]

Originally Posted by Bigdog33 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Thanks, BassDigger, I checked into this yesterday, and like you said, there's not a whole lot out there.  To tell the truth, I knew that jitter was a problem for USB connections, but really wasn't aware that optical signals were plagued by it too.  I did a fair amount of research into this, and what it seems I would really want is a "reclocker" that accepts optical in, but then can output to S/PDIF coaxial to my Schiit Bifrost, which has a coaxial input, which is what you said here!
 
I found the Empirical Synchro-Mesh, http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/synchro-mesh
 
But it's not really budget-friendly! It's $599, plus $100 for the coaxial output...

 
That sure is pricey, although it still has a standard coax output; the extra $100 is for an OTL output.
 
What I've been talking about is one of these:
 

 
The Monarchy Audio DIP
There're several versions. The above is one of the earliest. And I think they all use some pretty outdated re-clocking tech. But, you can pick one up for around $100usd (obviously S/H), and they're pretty solid. It'll both convert and improve your digital signal (To about the standard of a mid-fi, stand-alone CD transport, I believe.). 
 
Alternatively, you could just get a simple toslink to spdif converter (they're cheap and plentiful), along with a more modern ASRC re-clocker, or maybe a DAC with this feature built-in (I'm not sure if the Gustard X20 does this), when you next upgrade.
 
 
EDIT: Regarding USB- As I see it, there are 2 major disadvantages of using the usb output from a standard computer:
 

1. RFI - nasty signals (from the various components within the pc) that interfere with the workings of the connected equipment.
2. Glitches, noise and jitter- I was tempted to divide these into separate issues. But really I think that they're different aspects of the same thing; glitches are big playback timing errors, that are clearly audible as such. Noise is the presence of less obvious, but still audible and undesirable artifacts. Jitter is at the extreme; very high frequency errors, that make the dac's job more difficult.

 
An optical connection overcomes one of these disadvantages, but adds to the effects of the other. A jitter-buster will help reduce the the higher frequency negative effects, especially for the dac.
Also, it's worth keeping in mind that there's no perfect connection; they all lose something, or effect the signal somehow. You just have have to try and find the best solution for your situation.

 

[stuartmc]

Just a heads up guys -- I started a new thread just for the Gustard X20 DAC.  I think it may be best that general discussions stay here and the more focused discussion, specific to the X20, migrate to the new thread.  I'm not a moderator, nor have any desire to be the "appropriate thread police," so feel free to discuss the X20  anywhere you choose.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/780385/gustard-x20-dac

 

[GioF71]

As a reply to these posts:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/735828/gustard-h10-high-current-discrete-class-a-output-stage-headphone-amplifier/3075#post_11860820
http://www.head-fi.org/t/735828/gustard-h10-high-current-discrete-class-a-output-stage-headphone-amplifier/3075#post_11860854
 
I am posting here to avoid off topics.
 
@Noodlz
@stuartmc
 
Today I had the chance to finally compare directly two DACs I own: the Yulong D200 and the Gustard X12.
All the listenings were made through my linux player (ubuntu server 15.04 + mpd + upmpdcli - Atom D510 with a Linear Power Supply).
Also, the Schiit Wyrd was always used. The headphone amp is the Gustard H10 while I have used my best headphone, the Sennheiser HD650.
 
Test setups:
 
1) Player -> Audioquest Cinnamon 0.75m -> Wyrd -> Audioquest Cinnamon 0.75m -> Yulong D200 -> Balanced Cables -> Gustard H10 -> HD650
2) Player -> Audioquest Cinnamon 0.75m -> Wyrd -> Audioquest Cinnamon 0.75m -> Gustard X12 -> Balanced Cables -> Gustard H10 -> HD650
2) Player -> Audioquest Cinnamon 0.75m -> Wyrd -> Audioquest Cinnamon 0.75m -> Gustard U12 -> Ricable HDMI Cable -> Gustard X12 -> Balanced Cables -> Gustard H10 -> HD650
 
There are no night & day differences, but I would say setup 1 is the one which delivers the least amount of details. Also, the listening was definitely more fun with the X12. I think this is due to a more dynamic presentation.
The X12 behaves even better when using the U12 and the I2S (via HDMI) connection, which is my current setup.
 
Of course, I could not use the Yulong U12 interface with the D200 (at least not with a I2S connection, and I did not have the time to try coaxial, but this would have multiplicated the setups).
 
In this test I did not use the D200 built-in headphone amplifier. The D200 is quite good as a stand alone dac/amp, but it just cannot compete with the Gustard H10 as a Headphone Amp.