[Prog Rock Man]

The theory and measurements are here
 
http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/cables.shtml
 
which states
 
"But in spite of those brain tricks or marketing voodoo, there can be some times when swapping different cables into your rig really will cause an audible difference! Here's how: the total capacitance of every cable interacts with the output and input of every connected device to form a passive filter. As shown in the "visible difference" graphs above, this filter can roll off the highs, and boost a little hump in the mids. The closer the z out value at one end of the cable is to the z in at the other end, the more exaggerated and audible the filter becomes; the graphs show an extreme example of this. In most real-world applications the filter shape/effect will be more subtle, and will just sound like "different tone". The more the highs are rolled off, the "warmer" or "bassier" the cable will sound."
 
and some graphs
 

 

 
 
However, frequency response between the highest and lowest capacitance cables finds they are the same (excluding some interference)
 

 
 
That result with a Null test of guitar cables which found a difference that was audible...
 
http://web.mac.com/davewronski/audio/null.html
 
...suggests there really is an application where analogue cables can affect sound quality.
 
However, is this applicable to interconnects?
 
It is also worth pointing out that there is no correlation between price and performance.
 
 

 

[SpaceTimeMorph]

In terms of digital interconnects, high frequency attenuation has been shown to cause increased jitter.  Therefore if a rather capacitive cable were used, then you could get more jitter; potentially up to audible levels.  Here is a link that describes some of that: ftp://ftp.axon.tv/WhitePapers/Application%20note%20Jitter.pdf ; note it is more about broadcast audio so some of it doesn't correlate to what we're talking about.  This would really only apply to AES3, digital coaxial, and TOSLINK.  USB works a little differently though and jitter has more to do with the implementation than the cables.  Some light reading for you on this:
 
Audio Asylum talking about it.
NwAVGuy talking about it. (Under the jitter reduction part he talks about USB; he also mentions somewhere else on there about high frequency attenuation).

 

[fishski13]

Steve Eddy states 'i give up' in another thread and now this...did hell just freeze over?

 

[Redcarmoose]

Again another time where the guitar, amp and cable can all work together as a team for a great sound. The wrong amp and settings can be nasty with some guitars depending on the sound your looking for.  

 

[jcx]

more strawman attacks? - no engineer ever said no cable's electrical characteristics never ever makes any difference in any circuit whatsoever - cables between transducers and their preamps are often significant -  mm phonocartridge wiring capacitance is another example
 
 
guitar pickups are highly inductive, resonate with cable/preamp load capacitance in the audio frequency range, the impedance peak is so high that the preamp input R up to MegaOhms also affects the peaking - they do sound different and the reason is clear in any engineering analysis - put the preamp on the guitar and the cable after it makes no audible difference at all
 
 
where audio IC are not expected to make a difference is where the electrical properties of the cable combined with low output Z line driving circuits like most preamps, DAC outputs give  < 0.1 dB difference over  20Hz-20KHz with all "reasonable" construction cables, loads - which is the majority of home audio applications
 
 
lots of speculation about digital transmission jitter is exists - lots is really based in ignorance of current technology - no commercially successful digital interface introduces so much signal dependent jitter to actually corrupt the bits - digital audio receivers "clean" the data - as long as the bits are in the right order the pll/fifo removes the digital transmission jitter before the data is clocked into the DAC

 

[Prog Rock Man]

I dont see what jitter has to do with what was originally posted.
 
Is the opening post correct?

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

I dont see what jitter has to do with what was originally posted.
 
Is the opening post correct?

 
Jitter doesn't really have anything to do with the OP.
 
What you quoted is correct as far as I can tell and jcx explained it well.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

More evidence that guitar cables make a difference.
 

 

[danroche]

Quote:

 
That result with a Null test of guitar cables which found a difference that was audible...
 
http://web.mac.com/davewronski/audio/null.html
 
...suggests there really is an application where analogue cables can affect sound quality.
 

 

 
Does a null test necessarily indicate an audible difference? I ask because I know of many lossy-compressed audio files that "fail" the null test all over the place, but yet still pass ABX tests to the point of being practically indiscernable from the original file. In these cases, what you would be hearing in the null test would be that which the encoder decided you wouldn't be able to hear anyway. I know this is not happening with guitar cables, but wouldn't ABX's still be required to really determine the degree to which cables varied for practical purposes?

 

[Prog Rock Man]

A null test, by definition will show audibility or not. You may have a marginal result where the difference is small and at such a frequency that only some will be able to hear the difference.

 

[liamstrain]

Well now that is interesting. 
 
Obviously the nature of the signal from guitar to amp is slightly different than that from HPA to HP - especially impedence and load - but this is the first apparently well controlled study that shows any difference like this at all. 
 
Interesting. 
 
Curious now to see if in fact headphone cables can be shown to have a similar passive filter effect, though based on JCX's explanation, it sounds like they might not. 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

I thought it was interesting as well. I started this thread back in July expecting the subjectivists to seize on what is the first and only evidence I have found that shows a cable, any cable, inherantly makes a difference.
 
But to my surprise they did not. I think that subjectivists are of such a mind set that all they can do is try and rubbish by means of subjective, anecdotal and theory 'evidence ' the real science and testing.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

A null test, by definition will show audibility or not. You may have a marginal result where the difference is small and at such a frequency that only some will be able to hear the difference.

Just to clarify, if you can't hear the null, then there's no difference to hear in the first place. But if you can hear the null, that doesn't necessarily mean that the difference will be audible. Bill Waslo's Sousa band demonstration illustrates this quite well.
 
se
 
 
 

 

[kiteki]

 
Very good, the audible differences are extreme.
 
I remember reading about the "ZeroCap" cable back when I was into electric guitar, I thought it was just marketing hype.
 
In the Marco Angelo youtube video, he lists the signal chain as "Guitar -> cable -> Line6 -> PC"
 
I use the exact same signal chain, perhaps I should revisit my guitar.
 
 
I'd like to point out, how is the average consumer supposed to know guitar cables can have a huge effect on the tone, whilst USB, optical / toslink, and HDMI cables have 0.0% effect in all instances?
 
Repeating "all cables are the same" or "all cables are different" over and over is just useless *****, this is sound not politics or history, I don't understand why the audio community has to be so heavily "black and white" on every single topic, it's annoying.
 
 

 

[liamstrain]

I try not to be black and white. I just have one primary criteria... assertions should have evidence (the more objective, the better) to back them up. If you don't have that evidence, making a recommendation for something is at best, ignorant if well meaning... at worst, purposefully deceitful to get someone to give you more money. Most audio community people are in the middle there - aiding and abetting someone else's fraud, while trying to be well meaning.