Great Experience Today at Guitar Center with Ultrasone Pro650
Jun 30, 2008 at 4:09 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 7

mikaronni

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Today, I went to Guitar Center to buy some strings as well as try a few amps. I remember seeing Sennheisers on their site, so I decided to go into their recording section and see what headphones they had. Unfortunately, I could not find them, but I did see some AKG headphones as well as the Ultrasone Pro650. I decided to try them on and see how they were. The AKG headphones were pretty good, but I was shocked by the Pro650.

Impressions:
They sounded great. I do not know what the source or amp, if any, was being used. It was just out of a tower with other headphones. Right now, my current set up is just a computer with Logitech Z-2300 speakers. I was in shock though. The music sounded so clean and crisp. The bass was just phenomenal. The headphones packed a lot of punch but wasn't too overwhelming. The size of them were surprising also. In the pictures, they look small as if it were to rest on your ears. In reality, they fit perfectly around my ears. The only complaint I have is they were a bit tight, having a some pressure on my jaw bone. Besides that, they were great. The only thing that disappointed me was the S-Logic. I was expecting something to have near speaker-like qualities with excellent imaging. I did notice a bit of sound stage and that was great, but the music still felt like it was being shot into my ears from only the left or right.

Though I wish I could have, I did not buy these. I'm still waiting for my funds to build up to buy a proper DAC and amp all together for one big wow factor. I also would like to try the Denon D5000 (to be markl modded of course). Comfort is a big must, and I heard those have that characteristic. This was my first time listening to quality headphones and it was quite pleasing.

Just thought I would share my opinions. I may consider Ultrasones still. I would just like to know if the headband softens over time and if maybe I did not realize the effect of s-logic properly (I did try shifting the headphones back and forth). Also, are the 750's cloth pads less heat-inducing?
 
Jun 30, 2008 at 4:53 AM Post #2 of 7

rainy

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I can answer a few of these.. I recently - about a month ago - got PROlines 2500s. They are a notch above 650s in Ultrasone lineup and are open. 650s and 750s are closed, 750s are roughly equivalent to 2500s except for the latter being open.

Ultrasones are indeed great headphones, although I haven't compared to many others, but they are better than Sennheiser 595s (they are more expensive, too, though).

S-logic is indeed supposed to be fairly subtle. It's not like speakers at all. In fact many people report wider soundstage on various other top-grade headphones, however s-logic ultrasones are supposed to be more natural-sounding soundstage, less-fatiguing and less dangerous to hearing even at high volume because sound is reflected from the ears. That's the theory, anyway. I can attest that they do sound more natural than 595s and are less fatiguing - wiht 595s I sometimes, though rarely, get a feeling of pressure on ear membranes, like in an airplane - never with 2500s.

I haven't been able to find time to do proper a-b testing to compare these two, so I can just say that 595s are much more comfortable but don't seem to sound as good, especially with the strings - with 2500s, strings are more lush, complex, have more space around them.

Ultrasones do have a grip and I haven't got rid of it yet. I tried putting them on a block and a book to stretch them overnight, only did this 1 or 2 nights, it did help a bit but that that much. I think it's possible to just stretch the metal band itself, but I have PROlines (older type) and I heard they might break. I asked on Ultrasone thread and did not get response about this, so I'm playing it safe.

Ultrasones are also more fatiguing due to deep bass. Bass is very natural, controlled, rich, but I listen to them as I work sometimes for ~6-8 hours a day almost without break and I think bass itself, even when perfectly natural, is more fatiguing vs. lighter sound.

I got these for $230 shipped - new. That's because the PROLINES are discontinued and are replaced now with PRO 2500s. The difference is only thicker headband pad and earpads (I think?). Sound is not supposed to be any different.

One other note - on my pair at least, earpads sometimes fall out. They rotate easily and just fall down to the floor. Not a big deal but I have to mention that you definitely get a feeling that 595s are done by a company that has much more experience with fit and comfort. But sound comes first!

Keep in mind that D5k + markl mod are quite a bit more expensive! I think d5k is ~450 and mod is ~160. (2) PROline 2500s would be only $460!

Earpads on 2500s are very nice and don't get hot and don't let skin get sweaty. Material is perfect, feels even nicer that 595s which is almost as nice.

Even with grip fixed, 2500s/750s will never be as comfy as 595s and I assume 600s, because they're simply much heavier. I'm in fact considering whether I should only use 595s or ety er6p's while I work, and use Ultrasones only when critical-listening.

I'm also considering getting hd-600 if I see them cheap on the forum, but I need to make more money first :p . Markl D5000 are interesting but too expensive for me to consider. unless I win 500 trillion in a lottery, alas, god hates me :wink:.
 
Jun 30, 2008 at 5:02 AM Post #3 of 7

mikaronni

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I do not know if the bass is fatiguing for me or not. I was only able to listen to them for about 5 minutes. The price of the MD5000 is not too much of a concern as I will purchase it in steps. First the headphones (which I found for 400 at a store), then the mod. I do hope I can audition the 750 or 2500 later on and possibly an AB comparison with the D5000. I really do crave comfort since I listen to music for hours on end.
 
Jun 30, 2008 at 5:30 AM Post #4 of 7

wavoman

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Welcome to Ultrasone seduction! Resistance is futile!

The 2008 Ultrasone PRO (as opposed to the older ProLine) indeed updates only the headband and the earpads, but with closed phones like the 750 the seal DOES effect SQ.

It is an improvement for the better. Certainly comfort -- I wear the Pro 750's for hours with no problem, and couldn't do that with Ultrasone's before. I don't think the headband will soften over time, but I also don't think it needs to! No problem with any heat build-up on the pads, to answer your question. (If the 650's you tried said PRO and not ProLine, then I think you have experienced the fit, a bit of a worry since you said it was tight.)

Clamping on the head is measured in Newton's ("N"). Ultrasone says the Ed. 9's are 5.2N, and I think the Pro 750's are maybe a tad less (they don't quote a number and did not answer my emails), since the 750's seem a little less clamping than the Ed 9's.

Pro-type phones always have higher N for better isolation in the studio. For example, Beyer Consumer 880's have 2.8N while Beyer Pro's have 3.5N.

News Flash -- Beyer now makes the Consumer in a 600 Ohm, so you can have Pro SQ with 2.8N comfort.

I got a pair, and will be testing against the Pro 750's later in July -- not just me, but the whole NJ Head-Fi meet I hope. Of course we should be testing against the Beyer 770's, closed v. closed, but no one has those.

Don't rule 600 Ohm 880's out, or 770's if you want closed, for a super-comfortable fit. Check out MANUFAKTUR on the Beyerdynamic site ... you will be pleased.

But I do love the Ultrasone sound, I reach for the Pro 750's first!

As for S-logic, you are expecting too much. You get a little soundstage, that's all. It is impossible to get a speaker-like experience unless you wear a head tracking device with an IR sensor, like Smyth. Check the threads here on Smyth to learn more. Beyer also has a headtracking technology, the HeadZone ... I will be auditioning that soon. Many of us at CanJam 08 audtioned Smyth and were blown away -- it is the real deal, but not yet shipping. The Beyer is shipping, and has won awards. Smyth measures your ears in the fixed room you are in. Beyer lets you adjust and design a virtual listening room, but does not let you customize for you ears (the HRTF this is called).
 
Jun 30, 2008 at 6:02 AM Post #5 of 7

mikaronni

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Well I'd rather much have the sound quality over imaging, though it is nice. I do not know if I was trying on the Pro or Proline. I just saw 650 and put it on. I have a lot of time left before my decision to purchase. My funds don't build up that quickly and a new guitar amp is in the way.
Just wondering, does crossfeed create a good image?
 
Jun 30, 2008 at 6:14 AM Post #6 of 7

wavoman

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The headband would say clearly PRO 650 or ProLine 650.

I think the fit of the PRO 650 and PRO 750 would be identical, but have not tested this. I wish Ultrasone answered emails. I will try again now that the U.S. distribution issue is sorted.
 
Jun 30, 2008 at 7:56 AM Post #7 of 7

Peter Pinna

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mikaronni /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Today, I went to Guitar Center to buy some strings as well as try a few amps. I remember seeing Sennheisers on their site, so I decided to go into their recording section and see what headphones they had. Unfortunately, I could not find them, but I did see some AKG headphones as well as the Ultrasone Pro650. I decided to try them on and see how they were. The AKG headphones were pretty good, but I was shocked by the Pro650.

Impressions:
They sounded great. I do not know what the source or amp, if any, was being used. It was just out of a tower with other headphones. Right now, my current set up is just a computer with Logitech Z-2300 speakers. I was in shock though. The music sounded so clean and crisp. The bass was just phenomenal. The headphones packed a lot of punch but wasn't too overwhelming. The size of them were surprising also. In the pictures, they look small as if it were to rest on your ears. In reality, they fit perfectly around my ears. The only complaint I have is they were a bit tight, having a some pressure on my jaw bone. Besides that, they were great. The only thing that disappointed me was the S-Logic. I was expecting something to have near speaker-like qualities with excellent imaging. I did notice a bit of sound stage and that was great, but the music still felt like it was being shot into my ears from only the left or right.

Though I wish I could have, I did not buy these. I'm still waiting for my funds to build up to buy a proper DAC and amp all together for one big wow factor. I also would like to try the Denon D5000 (to be markl modded of course). Comfort is a big must, and I heard those have that characteristic. This was my first time listening to quality headphones and it was quite pleasing.

Just thought I would share my opinions. I may consider Ultrasones still. I would just like to know if the headband softens over time and if maybe I did not realize the effect of s-logic properly (I did try shifting the headphones back and forth). Also, are the 750's cloth pads less heat-inducing?



I'm actually more familiar with the Pro (Proline) 750's, which are the next step up from the 650's (the ones you heard) in the Ultrasone line. I have certainly heard the Pro 650's. And, I would say I am reasonably familiar with their sound. To answer your questions, there are two things I would like you to know. In the store, you probably heard a pair of 650's that were not fully burned in. If that is the case, their sound definitely improves. The second thing to know is that to a minor degree you can bend slightly the head band making it more comfortable. I've seen the specific instructions for this either in the manual that comes with the headphones (in my case, the Proline 750's) or on the Ultrasone website, I can't remember which right now.
Regarding the sound stage and the S-Logic "surround sound", primarily this name deals with the idea that the sound seems to surround your head. For some people, apparently, it takes a while to become accustomed to the sound stage of the Ultrasone headphones and come to a point where the Ultrasone sound stage is fully heard. There is some disagreement with this from those who do not believe there is any validity to the S-Logic Surround Sound concept. I can tell you from personal experience that it definitely exists. I have written an attempted description of what it's like for me listening to the Proline 750's. Here is the link to that thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/sou...phones-336543/

The first post in the thread is my description of what it's like to my ears, listening to the Pro (Proline) 750's. I would also like for you to read the following 8 pages where you will find posts from those who disagree with my description of the ULtrasone sound stage as well as those who agreed from personal experience.
When reading my description, take note of the theories which have been offered as to why some people can hear the Proline (Pro) sound stage and some seem not to be able to hear it. These are not my theories.
Over many years, I've heard a number of headphones and of the ones I've heard, the Proline (Pro) 750's are definitely my favorite. And, one of the reasons for this is because of their sound stage. The 650's have a similar sound stage but overall the 750's are somewhat better sounding overall, IMO. The 650's none-the-less are an excellent sounding headphone, IMO. In the final analysis only you can decide what you like. A lot of people will offer opinions (like me), but only you know what you like.
The reason I wrote "Proline (Pro)" is because last year they were called "Proline" and this year Ultrasone has changed the name to "Pro" but they are essentially (where technical specs and sound are concerned) the same headphone.
I wish you luck in finding your headphones.

EDIT: I wrote this post prior to reading the other posts so there is some information in my post that is detailed in the other posts too.
 

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