great bargain isolation discovery
Jul 23, 2016 at 1:19 PM Post #31 of 43
that was the whole thing with this discovery. it is a huge bargai in the us for $5 a package. to be honest even $1,500ea. feet make a subtle difference. regardless of the dave no footers will turn a $200 component into a $2,000 one of course. i am happy with them. used on all my components made a very nice difference for under $40. considering as i said many good feet are over a grand each in usd. i did not feel they made a grand plus worth of difference considering you need at least 3 per component. on the other hand the ke for the price in the us is seriously a bargain. this is really just because feet are not a grand plus worth of upgrade to me. the same way you can build your own cables that outperform at a fraction of the price. i think it boils down to our expectation in this industry is that things like this must be very expensive. i am glad you thought it was worthwhile even for what you paid. at us prices it is just a no brainer. of course it will depend somewhat on your components as to what results you garner. still, i do not feel big bucks feet make a huge difference over these. with this stuff being subtle to begin with. as you said you could switch back to the stock feet and not really miss it. imo, this is true of any of this stuff though. so why pay too much for it in the first place?
 
Oct 19, 2016 at 2:41 PM Post #32 of 43
Just discovered this thread and thought I'd share a breakthrough tweak I did a while back.
 
In the past I've tried some DYI isolation feet, as I did not want to spend money on something that may not work.  Took an old mousepad and cut it up, putting small bits under the feet of my DAC, amp, etc.  At that point I did not know that DACs or CD players benefited most from isolation.  The tweak did not seem to do much but add another layer of coloration on top of the sound that was not pleasing.
 
I stumbled upon a site that had a pretty nifty DYI tweak that would cost less than $5.  It involved wooden boards, ball bearings, tire inner tubes, and easter egg holders.  Sounds silly, but I'm always up for an experiment, it's what makes this hobby fun.
 
I did not know where to find easter egg holders, so I looked online.  Amazon had some so I ordered a few.  Knowing it would take a few days for them to arrive, I got antsy and decided to get even more DYI.  My local Home Depot had plenty of ball bearings, and I took the skinny inner tubes out of an old bike I had laying around.  In place of the easter egg holders, I took a bunch of clothespins, removed the metal springs and then glued the two pieces back together.
 

 

 
This allowed the clothespin to be placed on a surface without tipping to one side, and a hole for the ball bearing to rest in.
 
I have a CD player, Schiit Jountheim amp, Modi multibit DAC and a power conditioner that everything is plugged into.  At first I thought I would use the vibration control on everything, so I made 12 clothespin holders, 3 for each component in an equilateral triangle configuration.
 
The site said to inflate the inner tubes just a little bit, just enough for the component to not be resting on the surface of your rack or table or wherever it was.  I did not know what level to inflate the tubes, so I had to use my ears and try different levels until I found what sounded best.
 
I inflated the inner tubes, took some wooden boards I had inside of a cabinet, and put the board on top of the inner tube.  I then put the clothespin holders with ball bearings in an equilateral triangle configuration by measuring using measuring tape and drawing dots for each spot.  That way I knew they were equidistant from each other.  Rested the component on top.
 
Initially I did just the CD player so I could hear any slight or dramatic change in sound, to see if it worked with the individual component.
 

 

 
I wasn't sure what I was expecting.  I think I expected some kind of change, but nothing worth getting excited about.  I was not prepared for what I heard.  There was an instant veil of artificiality removed.  What I was left with was pure realism.  Now, before the tweak I would not say the sound was artificial.  But audio works in subtle degrees... and people are very often not aware of what they're missing, because everything sounds good until you hear something better.  This is why upgraditis is a thing in the audio community.  People are obsessed with greater and greater components because they know these subtle but powerful changes improve their listening experience.
 
I was beyond pleased with the change in isolating the CD player.  I messed around with the level of air in the inner tube, and found a level just right and marked it on the piece of paper vertically lined up with the board.  Too much air, and the midrange became bloated... not enough air and the sound did not change much.
 
Next I tried the DAC (modi multibit).  The multibit Schiit DACs are known for their realism.  And as I said before, before I did the tweak, I would not say my system did not sound realistic.  It did.  But I was not prepared for how much a veil there was over the sound until I isolated the CD player.  This effect of pure realism was even more pronounced when I isolated the DAC.  It was if I could close my eyes, reach out and touch the performers.  I could now hear people breathing into their instruments instead of just hearing the instrument.  I could hear the throaty rasps of singers.  I could hear noises on a classical music stage I hadn't hear before (creaking chairs, machine hum from the recording equipment, etc).  I could hear the acoustic resonance properties of instruments echoing through the recording space, giving me a better sense of the environment.  The speed of transient attacks increased to the point of no "hang time".  Pianos, violins, cellos, trumpets, etc... all sounded totally real and without the qualities one uses to describe a particular component.  What I mean is, when people review audio equipment, they usually talk about its properties, such as speed, transparency, detail, etc... with these tweaks, those limiting terms disappeared, as the sound was so realistic it would be like going to a concert and describing the speed or transient attack of the orchestra... no one would do that because it is live, right in front of them, and totally real.  The need to describe technicalities vanished and there was just...the music.  I only use technical descriptions here to give an idea of the change.  Soundstage also greatly increased in both width, height and depth, as well as "air"... you could feel the air in the room and the music bouncing through it, not just sounds coming out of nothing.
 
Eventually I tried isolating the amp and power conditioner, but I found, while at first there seemed be positive change, it was in fact negative.  The sound became too "floaty" and strangely untethered.  When I got the easter egg holders in the mail, I swapped the clothespins for them, but I found I did not like the sound the egg holders produced... too floaty.  The clothespins actually gave the sound weight and anchored it to a greater degree.  So it's a good thing I got antsy and impatient.
 
Here is a photo of the final configuration.
 

 

 

 
Oct 19, 2016 at 5:02 PM Post #33 of 43
We're talking about mechanical isolation for solid state electronic components? Like amps and DACs? 
 
The only time mechanical isolation or dampening is needed is for mechanical components, like turntables or for devices that are extremely sensitive to microphonics (my tube amp is like that, but only if I tap it with force)... Putting your solid state electronic components on cork coasters is going to do absolutely zilch. This thread is classic. 
 
Oct 21, 2016 at 7:14 PM Post #34 of 43
thank you. that is classically not true! just an "opinion". ss electronics are in fact sensitive to vibration and you can even measure it. what sounds best to anyone is up to them, including nothing. high end ss components would not have such fancy feet if they could make them cheaper and increase their profit. whatever. thats pretty cool colt.
 
check out my thread of speaker isolation/coupling which are in fact very mechanical.
 
Oct 21, 2016 at 7:16 PM Post #35 of 43
thank you. that is classically not true! just an "opinion". ss electronics are in fact sensitive to vibration and you can even measure it. what sounds best to anyone is up to them, including nothing. high end ss components would not have such fancy feet if they could make them cheaper and increase their profit. whatever. thats pretty cool colt.

check out my thread of speaker isolation/coupling which are in fact very mechanical.


And what measurements have you seen change from vibration? And how much did they change?
 
Oct 21, 2016 at 7:18 PM Post #36 of 43
it depends how much you shake it but trust me i have seen it. if you fling the thing around there will be measurable differences. a lot in fact. sitting on a good solid surface, little. little is something though.
 
Oct 22, 2016 at 7:12 AM Post #37 of 43
Trust your ears.

I ended up re-applying the device to my power conditioner, and everything improved even more. I think before I didnt do it right or something.

Such a fun, rewarding experiment!
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 12:21 AM Post #39 of 43
I am talking if you shake it like crazy. I did not measure anything at rest on a solid surface. it does not hurt and good fun. i enjoy it. that's all that really matters to me. People that say it transformed their system i don't know but it is their ears. not mine. some things you cannot explain. hence not measurable but i feel playing with it makes some difference. i was a sound engineer and electrical engineer for over 45 years. i now run my own studio. i suppose you feel acoustical treatment makes no difference either? room correction, preferably mechanically but also via software makes a huge difference. as most rooms are not designed for the loudspeakers that are in them. studios of course are purpose built. or at least they should be. with headphones just hanging ear pads can make large differences. granted, not always for the better.
 
grumpy, it seems you are calling me out. you can find this information with a google search to satisfy yourself. if solid state equipment is subjected to extreme vibration the results in performance can often be measured. depending on the component in question. of course on a good solid surface there is little to no vibration but i, and many others feel there is a difference. when using vibration control. than there is coupling rather than decoupling which is an entire different story. all of these things can and will make sonic differences. some profound some negligible. agreed though, mechanical devices will benefit the most. cd transports, especially turntables, certainly loudspeakers etc. as i said see the thread of my speaker coupling/decoupling.
 
the nice thing about this is diy works great but it is trial and error. you do not need to spend $1,000 per foot for commercial solutions. speaking of commercial applications the original top of this thread, those blocks work great in my system. easily competing with the $1,000 a piece feet they replaced. however, they may not in all systems. store bought or diy this is trial and error. it does not fix a bad or poorly setup system. in a wel designed system they are a finishing touch. like a record clamp they can make a big difference or little at all. if any. i found those of this topic worked tremendously for me. ymmv.
 
i do not have measurements to provide you so please stop  it. i have partaken in the measurements and found the most results when equipment was shaken very vigorously. barring that differences are mainly by ones ear. certainly not voodoo however. it goes to show though at least at extremes solid state equipment is in fact often afected. it also depends what you are resting the components on. if you have a pagode rack, footers shall make even less difference if any. great for turntables though. 
 
Oct 23, 2016 at 12:35 AM Post #40 of 43
I am talking if you shake it like crazy. I did not measure anything at rest on a solid surface. it does not hurt and good fun. i enjoy it. that's all that really matters to me. People that say it transformed their system i don't know but it is their ears. not mine. some things you cannot explain. hence not measurable but i feel playing with it makes some difference. i was a sound engineer and electrical engineer for over 45 years. i now run my own studio. i suppose you feel acoustical treatment makes no difference either? room correction, preferably mechanically but also via software makes a huge difference. as most rooms are not designed for the loudspeakers that are in them. studios of course are purpose built. or at least they should be. with headphones just hanging ear pads can make large differences. granted, not always for the better.

grumpy, it seems you are calling me out. you can find this information with a google search to satisfy yourself. if solid state equipment is subjected to extreme vibration the results in performance can often be measured. depending on the component in question. of course on a good solid surface there is little to no vibration but i, and many others feel there is a difference. when using vibration control. than there is coupling rather than decoupling which is an entire different story. all of these things can and will make sonic differences. some profound some negligible. agreed though, mechanical devices will benefit the most. cd transports, especially turntables, certainly loudspeakers etc. as i said see the thread of my speaker coupling/decoupling.

the nice thing about this is diy works great but it is trial and error. you do not need to spend $1,000 per foot for commercial solutions. speaking of commercial applications the original top of this thread, those blocks work great in my system. easily competing with the $1,000 a piece feet they replaced. however, they may not in all systems. store bought or diy this is trial and error. it does not fix a bad or poorly setup system. in a wel designed system they are a finishing touch. like a record clamp they can make a big difference or little at all. if any. i found those of this topic worked tremendously for me. ymmv.

i do not have measurements to provide you so please stop  it. i have partaken in the measurements and found the most results when equipment was shaken very vigorously. barring that differences are mainly by ones ear. certainly not voodoo however. it goes to show though at least at extremes solid state equipment is in fact often afected. it also depends what you are resting the components on. if you have a pagode rack, footers shall make even less difference if any. great for turntables though. 


I'm not calling anyone out, just politely asking some questions. Maybe you should reread my posts.

Of course vigorously shaking equipment will cause measurable differences. It's why environmental test labs invest in shaker tables. That's a very extreme case though, I thought you were talking about normal usage.

Of course room treatments make a difference, assuming you're talking about things like absorber material. That's a little off topic though... Obviously reflected waves and multipath can cause some interference at the ear. Not sure why this is being brought up in the context of this discussion though.

I thought that because you mentioned measurable differences, that you had actually measured it... That's all. No need to take things so personally.

I'm not a fan of passive aggressive responses, so I tend to be up front when I'm calling someone out on something. Clearly that's not what I was doing in my previous posts.
 
Oct 24, 2016 at 11:16 AM Post #42 of 43
"Huge differences" is a relative term though.  What is huge to one person may not be huge to someone else.  But that doesn't invalidate the first person's findings...they may simply appreciate certain things others find inconsequential or trivial.  It is hard to quantify audio quality since it is very subjective. 
 

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