^^ 8,000 posts.
lot of time spent on the HF.
lot of time spent on the HF.
Grado PS-1...Wow!
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Zanth
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A WHOLE lot! No doubt a major contributing factor as to why I haven't graduated yet
| Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^^ 8,000 posts. lot of time spent on the HF. |
A WHOLE lot! No doubt a major contributing factor as to why I haven't graduated yet
Rob N
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The PS-1 was great for us in Europe as the price of $1400 was similar to a new pair of RS-1's
Zanth
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Definitely
It was similar with the Canadians at the time, RS-1's were 1200 MSRP. However, when buying didn't you Europeans have to buy from Todd meaning having the PS-1 shipped from Germany back to the US then back to you in the UK?
Horrible amount of traveling
| Originally Posted by Rob N /img/forum/go_quote.gif The PS-1 was great for us in Europe as the price of $1400 was similar to a new pair of RS-1's |
Definitely
Horrible amount of traveling
Rob N
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No we bought from the German dealers/distributors
Cool_Torpedo
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No worries Zanth, just wanted to leave clear that my numbers came from an official source, but weren't as elaborated as yours. I'm sure John knows perfectly well how many units they produced, and how many spare parts they keep in stock. I wonder if he's using some of those spares to produce the very limited units he auctions from time to time for charity at Ebay.
The prices those units reach tell something about the interest the PS-1raise nowadays, which is quite in opposition to the market situation on the days they were sold by Todd. It's probably more of an individual interest from less than a dozen of potential buyers, than a true big enough -for the potential market size- interest to make John Grado deciding to re-start production.
How many of you Headfiers would be willing to pay let's say USD 1600 for a pair of brand new PS-1? I already have a pair and I paid more than that, which I don't regret, if I hadn't this pair, I'd be very interested on them.
Rgrds
| Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, I didn't intend to come off as being curt. I should have used a smiley 
I would think that you are correct, at the time, the Joseph craze was in full swing and folks weren't interested in anything John had. The few PS-1's that were heard were snatched up and rarely sold on the used market. Those that were contacting Todd had to wait in the beginning until the units arrived. So perhaps these initial delays caused folks to look elsewhere. Still, once the units started stacking up on the shelves, it did take Todd quite a while to deplete his final stock. Far longer than I suppose anyone would have imagined given the intense desire for them. Still, such a lack of desire likely caused Todd to stop ordering new ones along with the German distributor having sold his lot and that closed down the line at Grado. Of course being a PS-1 owner, I'm pleased that Grado has parts for repairs but it is too bad that such a nice headphone is owned by a very tiny minority of the Head-fi community. |
No worries Zanth, just wanted to leave clear that my numbers came from an official source, but weren't as elaborated as yours. I'm sure John knows perfectly well how many units they produced, and how many spare parts they keep in stock. I wonder if he's using some of those spares to produce the very limited units he auctions from time to time for charity at Ebay.
The prices those units reach tell something about the interest the PS-1raise nowadays, which is quite in opposition to the market situation on the days they were sold by Todd. It's probably more of an individual interest from less than a dozen of potential buyers, than a true big enough -for the potential market size- interest to make John Grado deciding to re-start production.
How many of you Headfiers would be willing to pay let's say USD 1600 for a pair of brand new PS-1? I already have a pair and I paid more than that, which I don't regret, if I hadn't this pair, I'd be very interested on them.
Rgrds
Gabe Logan
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Foo_me sold me his a couple years back for around that price and it was a great deal even then since another pair sold for 2k and it even had a ding in one of the cups.The funny thing was they were in the FS forum and i think i was the only one who showed interest in them.
| Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif How many of you Headfiers would be willing to pay let's say USD 1600 for a pair of brand new PS-1? I already have a pair and I paid more than that, which I don't regret, if I hadn't this pair, I'd be very interested on them. Rgrds |
Foo_me sold me his a couple years back for around that price and it was a great deal even then since another pair sold for 2k and it even had a ding in one of the cups.The funny thing was they were in the FS forum and i think i was the only one who showed interest in them.
Cool_Torpedo
1000+ Head-Fier
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Yep, that's the point. Despite the aparent interest, they don't sell as quickly as they are supposed to do. At least a couple of years ago. Maybe in the present time Grado would be able to sell a run of a couple of hundreds for 1800-2000$. Who knows. However this would piss off a lot of current owners that have paid those prices, even more, for used units hehehe.
Rgrds
| Originally Posted by Gabe Logan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Foo_me sold me his a couple years back for around that price and it was a great deal even then since another pair sold for 2k and it even had a ding in one of the cups.The funny thing was they were in the FS forum and i think i was the only one who showed interest in them. |
Yep, that's the point. Despite the aparent interest, they don't sell as quickly as they are supposed to do. At least a couple of years ago. Maybe in the present time Grado would be able to sell a run of a couple of hundreds for 1800-2000$. Who knows. However this would piss off a lot of current owners that have paid those prices, even more, for used units hehehe.
Rgrds
braillediver
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From what I've read I agree whole heartedly with Zanths summation- 250 sets of parts with the highest SN I’ve heard of being 168 (there are some un-numbered ones out there).
I believe Todd brought in about 36 pairs- he imported them for about 18 months at 2 a month.
I believe Grado could kick some serious Butt if they marketed the PS-1’s in the $1800-$2K range. I’d buy a pair or 2 immediately.
If they could be exported / re-imported and then sold for $1400 and still make a profit then they should be able to be made / sold for the $1800-$2000 range.
So thinking out loud- How much would it cost to commission a build of headphones like the Grado PS-1’s? If they sold for $1200 or $1400 originally the actual cost had to be a lot less. It had to be in the $150K range? Are you’re looking at 100 people putting up $2000 to be able to ask John Grado to work his magic? I’d put the $2K out today and then pony up for the second pair when I get the money. A limited edition Head-Fi PS-1 financed via pre-sales? I’m dreaming out loud but I Want Another Pair! For that much money I want them new with a factory warranty.
The High-End Headphone market is Dead if you want a new headphone. Hey Todd, Headroom, Ray Samuels, John Grado- What say you?
Mitch
I believe Todd brought in about 36 pairs- he imported them for about 18 months at 2 a month.
I believe Grado could kick some serious Butt if they marketed the PS-1’s in the $1800-$2K range. I’d buy a pair or 2 immediately.
If they could be exported / re-imported and then sold for $1400 and still make a profit then they should be able to be made / sold for the $1800-$2000 range.
So thinking out loud- How much would it cost to commission a build of headphones like the Grado PS-1’s? If they sold for $1200 or $1400 originally the actual cost had to be a lot less. It had to be in the $150K range? Are you’re looking at 100 people putting up $2000 to be able to ask John Grado to work his magic? I’d put the $2K out today and then pony up for the second pair when I get the money. A limited edition Head-Fi PS-1 financed via pre-sales? I’m dreaming out loud but I Want Another Pair! For that much money I want them new with a factory warranty.
The High-End Headphone market is Dead if you want a new headphone. Hey Todd, Headroom, Ray Samuels, John Grado- What say you?
Mitch
stevenkelby
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Quote:
Quote:
| Originally Posted by braillediver /img/forum/go_quote.gif A limited edition Head-Fi PS-1 financed via pre-sales? I’m dreaming out loud but I Want Another Pair! For that much money I want them new with a factory warranty. The High-End Headphone market is Dead if you want a new headphone. Hey Todd, Headroom, Ray Samuels, John Grado- What say you? Mitch |
Quote:
| Originally Posted by stevenkelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif Contact Grado, see if they're keen, start a new thread for people committed to a pre order, see where it goes? I'm keen
|
subtle
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Excellent post Mitch. I really, really hope Mr. Grado and Todd are listening.
I think the only slight problem with this wonderful pipe dream, and perhaps Zanth can correct me if I'm mistaken, is that I recall reading in the past that the rights to the PS-1 are owned by whatever German firm commissioned them in the first place. I don't know for certain whether that is completely accurate, but I believe I've seen that mentioned. If the name had to be changed it wouldn't bother me at all. PS-2? HF-2? As long as you give me that wonderful driver in the same metal housing I'm game.
At $1800-2000 with a factory warranty I would also buy two immediately, right this second. Who do I write the check to?
I think the only slight problem with this wonderful pipe dream, and perhaps Zanth can correct me if I'm mistaken, is that I recall reading in the past that the rights to the PS-1 are owned by whatever German firm commissioned them in the first place. I don't know for certain whether that is completely accurate, but I believe I've seen that mentioned. If the name had to be changed it wouldn't bother me at all. PS-2? HF-2? As long as you give me that wonderful driver in the same metal housing I'm game.
At $1800-2000 with a factory warranty I would also buy two immediately, right this second. Who do I write the check to?
Zanth
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Certainly if not the PS-1's then something different? It doesn't have to say PS-1 or look identical to it either. So long as it sounds as good or better and is built in the same fashion, I think there would be a clear winner.
No doubt the folks that want a high-end headphone would be willing to plunk down the cash and I'd wager that despite the current lull in the economy, that there would be 50-100 individuals from Head-fi who would be willing to pay upfront for a pair.
Sennheiser is clearly in the mid-fi camp without their eletrostats. I'm terming mid-fi for us at Head-fi. To the rest of the world the HD650's are clearly high-end. They sure can sound incredible with the right amplification! Still, on their own, they don't match up to the greats. Since Sennheiser isn't making new electrostats, they are out of the game for now.
AKG, with the discontinuation of the K1000's has left the game as well. The 701's though nice, aren't "high-end."
Sony dropped the ball with the Qualias and since that entire division has closed down and with their current financial struggles, I don't know if we will see anything truly remarkable coming from them any time soon.
Beyer was never really there, truly a mid-fi company for headphones.
This leaves us with IEM companies who are turning out new products often which is great, but IEM's aren't for everyone and will never sound as real as large sized headphones.
So we turn our attention to Audio Technica and Grado. Ultrasone seems to be a true miss in the high-end for most folks, maybe the 9's have established them as a high quality sound, still leaving us with only 3 companies.
Audio Technica I have no doubt will come out with something that will surpass their L3000s. They are a true innovator in dynamic headphones. Grado has over the years kept pace with releasing shining models that many feel are at the top of the heep. Only Stax continues to make headphones which people clearly deem as the best of the best, but even they haven't released a new model in ages (with the Omega I being superior by most accounts).
If we want innovation in the market, maybe the onus should be on us. Perhaps we ought to approach companies like Jan did Sennheiser. Urge small runs of AWESOME headphones with the guarantee of a base profit.
I'd come up with the money somehow to commit. Sell off some gear and items at home to do it. It is a risk of course, the sound could be soemthing I am not up for, but if it were Grado, I'd be confident I'd at least like it. If Sony, it would have to be in the same sonic line as the R10 with better bass, etc.
No doubt the folks that want a high-end headphone would be willing to plunk down the cash and I'd wager that despite the current lull in the economy, that there would be 50-100 individuals from Head-fi who would be willing to pay upfront for a pair.
Sennheiser is clearly in the mid-fi camp without their eletrostats. I'm terming mid-fi for us at Head-fi. To the rest of the world the HD650's are clearly high-end. They sure can sound incredible with the right amplification! Still, on their own, they don't match up to the greats. Since Sennheiser isn't making new electrostats, they are out of the game for now.
AKG, with the discontinuation of the K1000's has left the game as well. The 701's though nice, aren't "high-end."
Sony dropped the ball with the Qualias and since that entire division has closed down and with their current financial struggles, I don't know if we will see anything truly remarkable coming from them any time soon.
Beyer was never really there, truly a mid-fi company for headphones.
This leaves us with IEM companies who are turning out new products often which is great, but IEM's aren't for everyone and will never sound as real as large sized headphones.
So we turn our attention to Audio Technica and Grado. Ultrasone seems to be a true miss in the high-end for most folks, maybe the 9's have established them as a high quality sound, still leaving us with only 3 companies.
Audio Technica I have no doubt will come out with something that will surpass their L3000s. They are a true innovator in dynamic headphones. Grado has over the years kept pace with releasing shining models that many feel are at the top of the heep. Only Stax continues to make headphones which people clearly deem as the best of the best, but even they haven't released a new model in ages (with the Omega I being superior by most accounts).
If we want innovation in the market, maybe the onus should be on us. Perhaps we ought to approach companies like Jan did Sennheiser. Urge small runs of AWESOME headphones with the guarantee of a base profit.
I'd come up with the money somehow to commit. Sell off some gear and items at home to do it. It is a risk of course, the sound could be soemthing I am not up for, but if it were Grado, I'd be confident I'd at least like it. If Sony, it would have to be in the same sonic line as the R10 with better bass, etc.
krmathis
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Zanth. What a great post!
Its sad to see that apart from Stax all the major vendors have dropped High-End headphones. Be it Sennheiser, Grado, AKG, Sony, Audio Technica, ...
Some of them several years back, and others quite recently.
The market may have changed. But to me it still looks to be a demand out there.
So hopefully one or more of them grab the opportunity and come up with a headphone on par with their top-end back then...
Its sad to see that apart from Stax all the major vendors have dropped High-End headphones. Be it Sennheiser, Grado, AKG, Sony, Audio Technica, ...
Some of them several years back, and others quite recently.
The market may have changed. But to me it still looks to be a demand out there.
So hopefully one or more of them grab the opportunity and come up with a headphone on par with their top-end back then...
Rob N
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I would be interested
braillediver
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“If we want innovation in the market, maybe the onus should be on us.”
I wish I knew what the PS-1’s cost upfront to do? It couldn’t have been more than $100K or $200K since they sold for $1200 or $1400 and people made money off of them. There’s no way they cost $1000 each to make. It had to be more like $500 or less.
Wish I had $150,000 to talk to John Grado with. I Love the Grado Sound and he’s probably the only one who would be able to do it.
Something that would be amazing is- if a project like this could be privately financed by enthusiasts- the end result would be a much greater value than a mass marketed item since it would be a zero sum game for the investors- the vast majority of the cost of the item would be for the actual item not the resellers profit so the item would actually be worth 80% or more of the initial cost. A headphone that initially cost $2000 to a first rung investor would be worth $3000 or $4000 on the open market.
We need some one with business savvy to think about this and figure out if it could work and if so how to implement it.
A Head-Fi Mutual Fund where the Payout is Headphones.
Mitch
I wish I knew what the PS-1’s cost upfront to do? It couldn’t have been more than $100K or $200K since they sold for $1200 or $1400 and people made money off of them. There’s no way they cost $1000 each to make. It had to be more like $500 or less.
Wish I had $150,000 to talk to John Grado with. I Love the Grado Sound and he’s probably the only one who would be able to do it.
Something that would be amazing is- if a project like this could be privately financed by enthusiasts- the end result would be a much greater value than a mass marketed item since it would be a zero sum game for the investors- the vast majority of the cost of the item would be for the actual item not the resellers profit so the item would actually be worth 80% or more of the initial cost. A headphone that initially cost $2000 to a first rung investor would be worth $3000 or $4000 on the open market.
We need some one with business savvy to think about this and figure out if it could work and if so how to implement it.
A Head-Fi Mutual Fund where the Payout is Headphones.
Mitch
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