Grado PS-1...Wow!
Aug 26, 2008 at 8:29 PM Post #46 of 105

vcoheda

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it seems that what one would have to do is to approach one of these companies - say, grado - and ask them if they would be interested in making a limited edition run of a high end headphone if we could guarantee a certain number would be paid for in full. and if they were open to the idea then the only issue would be how many units would have to be accounted for and at what price.

certainly an interesting idea. not sure how feasible it is though.
 
Aug 26, 2008 at 8:38 PM Post #47 of 105

braillediver

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It's easy to over estimate demand and under estimate cost.

Or find out who had the PS-1's made and make them an offer to try to get them re-released?

All this is a fantasy without John Grados participation.

It's nice to think of what could be instead of complaining about what is.


Mitch
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 12:46 AM Post #48 of 105

Zanth

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Three points are key and Mitch mentioned two of them in one sentence:

"It's easy to over estimate demand and under estimate cost."

The third point is this: whatever is made, will people like it?

If some headphone is made, how much "planning" would need to take place? What level of participation would the "investors" want to have in conjunction with the mastery of the manufacturer? John knows how to build headphones, some love the sound, many like it. If someone were to invest in a Grado special edition, with perhaps a handful of requests (screws, all metal, supple leather, etc) but leaving the overall sound to Grado Labs to figure out, would that be enough?

Certainly a few things would need to be worked out:

1) a manufacturer willing to take this on (maybe Grado Labs actually would be, they are by far the closest to the Head-fi community on a person to person basis)

2) a clear understanding of costs. Would a deposit be sufficient with the final price to be determined once the product was finished? Would there be heavy communication back and forth during the R&D and then manufacturing phase? With the PS-1, much of the parts were "recycled" from the Free systems headphones. Developing something brand new might actually cost quite a bit because of machining and tooling. (if folks really wanted metal).

3) hard or soft deadlines?

4) who owns the rights to the product?

5) limited run or ongoing product line?



Personally, if I could be a part of something great I wouldn't care if the manufacturer "owned" the rights, so long as minimal profit from the initial investors was extracted from our pockets. If the manufacturer is acting as a contractor, then the Head-fi members should own the rights to the headphone and get some type of profit unless agreed otherwise. Basically, I don't want to invest a ton of cash only to have the manufacturer make off like a bandit from my initial investment AND then make a good deal of money off of future sales. At the same time, if I was assured a quality product for say $2000 invested, for me personally, I couldn't care less. I wouldn't be in it for the money, but some might be and/or would think of this later on if the product was really successful.

At the end of the day the initial three points are the key:

How much will it cost to make, will there be enough folks up front to cover the costs and once made will they like it enough to be satisfied? Would there be an alpha and beta testing group to ensure the product hits the desires of the majority?

Lots to think about before anyone should be approached but certainly I would be willing to take the lead in organizing something "official" with whichever manufacturer was willing to work with us.
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 7:44 AM Post #49 of 105

Cool_Torpedo

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IMHO we're overestimating the demand. I don't think there are that many Head-fi members willing to invest something around 2000 dollars for a "could be" product. Not even if it were already a great product.

Regarding your other considerations, I only can speak for myself. If those 2000 dollars buy me a great set of headphones doing right most of the things I care about, I don't mind the manufacturer makes a lot of money at a later stage selling thousands of them, although some sort of "reward" would be greatly appreciated
biggrin.gif


Rgrds
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 7:55 AM Post #50 of 105

Gabe Logan

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If i remember correctly John was upset when HF1's were being sold on ebay for a ton of cash and that was the end to any future limited edition set being sold through Head-Fi so we can scratch that right off the bat.
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 4:10 PM Post #51 of 105

Zanth

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Gabe, I understand what you are saying. The difference in this case is that the members would be paying for the costs of developing upfront. Grado had donated profits to Head-fi. The HF-1 was supposed to be a thank you to the membership and a sign of support for Jude and the site. In this case, members would be collectively coming together to request a custom made headphone as a complete business transaction. You might be right, the bitter taste might still be left there, but on the other hand, if there were enough people willing to put the cash upfront, perhaps a small run could be made with an ongoing version in the future. The HF-1 by contrast was meant to be exclusive to Head-fi, never to be made in the future.
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 8:17 PM Post #52 of 105

krmathis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe Logan /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If i remember correctly John was upset when HF1's were being sold on ebay for a ton of cash and that was the end to any future limited edition set being sold through Head-Fi so we can scratch that right off the bat.


So don't make it limited edition then.
Keep on building headphones as long as there are demand. Be it 20 or 200 units, 1 month or 10 years.
normal_smile .gif


Just look at the Stax SR-007, now into its 11th year of production...
 
Aug 27, 2008 at 9:02 PM Post #53 of 105

Gabe Logan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Gabe, I understand what you are saying. The difference in this case is that the members would be paying for the costs of developing upfront. Grado had donated profits to Head-fi. The HF-1 was supposed to be a thank you to the membership and a sign of support for Jude and the site. In this case, members would be collectively coming together to request a custom made headphone as a complete business transaction. You might be right, the bitter taste might still be left there, but on the other hand, if there were enough people willing to put the cash upfront, perhaps a small run could be made with an ongoing version in the future. The HF-1 by contrast was meant to be exclusive to Head-fi, never to be made in the future.


I hear what you are saying and my post was not in response to what you posted but rather i wanted to throw that out so no one gets the idea that this could be another HF-1 edition but something completely different.
 
Aug 29, 2008 at 3:41 AM Post #55 of 105

XXII

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Someone should start a thread to gauge interest. I, for one, would be interested at around $1500...
 
Aug 29, 2008 at 8:50 AM Post #56 of 105

krmathis

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I would be interested as well. If it turns out:
* All-metal. Like the HP1000 and PS1
* Leather headband.
* Sound quality on par with their top products from the past.

Willing to stretch up to $2000 for the right one.
 
Aug 30, 2008 at 12:07 AM Post #57 of 105

Beagle

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Sorry, but $2000 for a variation on the Grado theme seems a tad ridiculous to me. I don't care if it's made out of pure gold, if it's just a slightly different sounding RS-1 or GS1000, t'aint worth an additional $1000-$1300 IMO. If John Grado knew how to design something that would walk all over his current flagship and could retail for $2000, do you think he would make it a LE Head-Fi special? Doubt it. On the other hand, it'd be hard for him to ignore an opportunity to build 200 headphones he could make $300,000 profit on, especially if all the funding was paid upfront
very_evil_smiley.gif
. $2000 for the perfect Grado headphone would be a bargain but as we all know, one persons perfect is another's flawed, and money can't buy perfection. It simply ain't be.

Now, if he were to take the 325i concept, house the drivers in metal (using the updated, less-bright drivers he put in mine) and offer it to us for $495, then we'd all have a chance to have some fun, not just people who are of the "cost no object" mentality.
 
Aug 30, 2008 at 12:37 AM Post #59 of 105

vcoheda

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i was thinking more along the lines of $1200-$1400. if it's going to cost 2k, you might as well just buy an HP1 or PS1.

of course, we are all engaging in great amounts of speculation - it's still fun though.
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Aug 30, 2008 at 12:56 AM Post #60 of 105

number1sixerfan

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I understand you guys hoping for another true high end can, but from a business stand point it just doesn't make sense. And just about every headphone manufacturer has figured that out by now.
 

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