Grado line and Rio Karma..

[Thisp]

The headphone out of the Rio Karma I'd use to power the 'phones is specced as follows.

Power per Channel: 55mW/ch @ 16 ohms. 30mW/ch @ 32 ohms

I want to upgrade my Senn MX500s to Grados or better Sennheisers. The upper level Grados all have the same sensetivity and the same low 32 ohm impedance, while the senns had a 120 impedance in their 5*5 models. The Grados have also been reviewed as better headphones for metal with a more upfront presentation, which is just how I like my music, so I'm leaning towards them. I have a few questions, though.

a) Would the Rio be able to drive the Sennheiser HD 595s well with their 120 ohm impedance?

b) Where in the Grado line am I paying more money for minimal improvement(i.e., 125s to 225s, 225s to 325s, 80s to 125s), or would I hear a fair amount of improvement if I upgrade from any particular pair to the one above it? I was looking at the 80s, 125s, or 225s. Would there be substantial improvement with each one?

c) Since the Grados have a high efficiency and a low 32 ohm impedance(like my current 'phones), would the rio be able to drive them well? I can't put the rio over 25/30 or I'll deafen myself with my current 32 ohm buds. The Rio has far more output power than any other player I've seen or heard so I assume it could, but want to make sure.

I'd expect any of these to be a substantial upgrade over my $10 buds. They sound far better than everything I've heard in Best Buy yet they're still just $10 buds. What bass they give is tight and accurate, but when compared to most other "full" headphones driven by my Karma, the bass on the buds sounds more like a syblominal message than a part of the band.

Thanks.

 

[crazyfrenchman27]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp The headphone out of the Rio Karma I'd use to power the 'phones is specced as follows. Power per Channel: 55mW/ch @ 16 ohms. 30mW/ch @ 32 ohms I want to upgrade my Senn MX500s to Grados or better Sennheisers. The upper level Grados all have the same sensetivity and the same low 32 ohm impedance, while the senns had a 120 impedance in their 5*5 models. The Grados have also been reviewed as better headphones for metal with a more upfront presentation, which is just how I like my music, so I'm leaning towards them. I have a few questions, though. a) Would the Rio be able to drive the Sennheiser HD 595s well with their 120 ohm impedance?

a)Yes, although an amp would improve their sound quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp b) Where in the Grado line am I paying more money for minimal improvement(i.e., 125s to 225s, 225s to 325s, 80s to 125s), or would I hear a fair amount of improvement if I upgrade from any particular pair to the one above it? I was looking at the 80s, 125s, or 225s. Would there be substantial improvement with each one?

b)SR225 to SR325 or SR80 to SR125.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp c) Since the Grados have a high efficiency and a low 32 ohm impedance(like my current 'phones), would the rio be able to drive them well? I can't put the rio over 25/30 or I'll deafen myself with my current 32 ohm buds. The Rio has far more output power than any other player I've seen or heard so I assume it could, but want to make sure.

c)Yes, volume will not be an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp I'd expect any of these to be a substantial upgrade over my $10 buds.

They will be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp They sound far better than everything I've heard in Best Buy yet they're still just $10 buds. What bass they give is tight and accurate, but when compared to most other "full" headphones driven by my Karma, the bass on the buds sounds more like a syblominal message than a part of the band. Thanks.

Currently Listening to: "Where is my Mind?" by The Pixies on my Sony MDR-CD180

 

[Thisp]

Thanks! I couldn't have asked for a more concise, unbiased, and to the point response.

 

[hottyson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp The Grados have also been reviewed as better headphones for metal with a more upfront presentation, which is just how I like my music, so I'm leaning towards them.

Grado is a good choice. You will find that they do very well on other music as well.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp I'm leaning towards them.

The SR-225 is fricken bargin for the $ that they cost!!!
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp I was looking at the 80s, 125s, or 225s. Would there be substantial improvement with each one?

The SR-225 gets the most hype here. That is what I decided on. I have not been disapointed.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisp c) Since the Grados have a high efficiency and a low 32 ohm impedance (like my current 'phones), would the rio be able to drive them well?

Don't worry too much about impedance and power. The important thing is that others have driven Grado headphones straight from portables with very satisfied results. I would say that you are pretty safe driving it from most any popular portable device.
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfrenchman27 a)Yes, although an amp would improve their sound quality.

I agree with this. However if you are the type of person to not lug around a portable amp with you then you should be quite happy with the performance of the Grado SR-225 even driven without an amp. In my experience, an unamped Grado SR-225 can beat an amped (Ray Samuels Emmeline XP-7) Beyerdynamic DT-880 with most music.

 

[jesse_w]

To reiterate what has been said, driving the 595s or Grados shouldn't be a problem. My iPod drives the HD595s well above comfortable listening levels.

As for the Grados, a few things that I'll add since I've got a bit of a different take. First a warning, AFAIK the SR225 is only availible with 1/4inch termination which means you'd need an adapter cable to use your Karma, which could be troublesome. The HD595 has a solid adapter, but its a few inches long altogether assembled, and probably unwieldy for a portable player. Niether of these are really issues if you're just sitting down at a desk or something to use them though.

As far as the Grado line goes, IMO the SR-60 and SR-80 are unbearably harsh, and thats not even necessarily a result of brightness. I just found it painful to listen to them for extended amounts of time. Definately an embodiment of grate-o and earbleeding sound. The SR-125 (I dont' remember how its terminated) is a marked improvement in smoothness, while the SR-225 (IMO better than the 325; haven't heard RS-1/2 etc not that you're in the market for those) maintains this (relatively speaking of course, these are far from smooth, relaxed cans, but the 125 and 225 are listenable) improvement as well as a marked step up in detail.

I haven't directly A/Bed the 225s and the 595s, but having listened to them both fairly extensively on separate occasions I would pick the 595s if I had to choose blindly right now, even for metal. They are fairly similar headphones however, there is a fair amount of information on them both around here.

If you're going to use these portably I wouldn't recommend the 225/595 because of the cable issues. I'd go 125 if it terminates in a 1/8th (I dont remember) or the 80 otherwise. The SR-80 is in most respects fantastic for its price but I found it fatigueing, you may not.

Sorry for the verbosity.

jesse

 

[Thisp]

I wouldn't use it portably, but I'd use my portable as the source as I couldn't spend another $150 on a headphone amp. Plus, my rio doesn't have a line out, so I couldn't use a headphone amp with it portably - I'd have to carry it around in the dock, and that certainly doesn't fit in my pocket... and even if it did, the dock is too damn bulky to be considered 'portable'.

So the Sennheiser HD 595s could be well driven by an iPod? Surprising, it has less power than the karma does. The impedance of the Senns compared to the impedance of the Grados suggests that in addition to the senns being far harder to drive, the insanely high impedance in the bass frequencies would hinder their bass response badly while driven by the karma.

If amps were cheaper and these headphones were available offline anywhere nearby, this would be a such an easy decision to make.

 

[jesse_w]

Well in your position for home listening I'd go HD595 personally, or perhaps A900. I don't think you'd be far off the mark with the 225s though because these headphones are all quite similar.

The other issue some people have with the Grados is comfort, and the 595s are a slight improvement in that regard. They certainly stay on the head better. To confuse things even more I much prefer the A900 in this regard. On the other hand, I may have a wierd head, because some people find the 595 extremely comfortable, which I do not. No place nearby where you can try ANY Grados for comfort? You might be able to eliminate them that way.

If not, thats the extent of what I can help with. Read as much as you can, or flip a coin? gl

jesse

 

[Thisp]

I haven't tried a 'phone yet I've found 'uncomfortable', although I also haven't had much time to spend with those ultra-padded suave looking Sennheisers.

 

[Thisp]

Erm, one last question for you guys.

Would the Echo Indigo card for laptops count as a headphone amp? Would it be powerful enough to be considered an improvement over the Rio portable's internal amp when driving the Grados or those Senns? It's specced to have a 1 VRMS output, but I don't know how many mW that is, nor how many mW is considered 'good'. Then I'd get a quality source AND an amp for $100, which is much better.

If it wouldn't be better/more powerful than the Rio, I'll forget about it.

Again, thanks for all the help thus far.