Grado Fan Club!
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- dynamat grado grado hf3 grado-gs1000 grado-head-fi-series-hf-2-headphones grado-igrado-black grado-professional-series-ps500-headphones grado-rs1i-reference-series-headphones grado-sr-80 grado-sr125i-headphones grado-sr225i-headphones grado-sr325is-headphones grado-sr80i-headphones grado-statement-series-gs1000i-headphones nhoord nhoord red v2
TRapz
500+ Head-Fier
After my first year of audiophilism in the Shure world, I've officially become a Grado fan. Picked up a used SR80i at Fidelis AV (where I attended a headphone meet last December), absolutely loving it. I actually find it pretty comfortable. Other than the sound, I was most surprised by the cable; seems as though you'd need hedge trimmers to clip it
bpcans
Headphoneus Supremus
TRapz, welcome to the club, and don't try to clip your headphone cable.
TRapz
500+ Head-Fier
I'll try, but I'll have to get used to listening without my hedge trimmers...
Really loving these, midrange is forwards, bass is good, and guitars are very, very clear. It's almost like these were built for AC/DC.
stacker45
Headphoneus Supremus
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I must be weird, because no matter what my mood.....music is the one thing that soothes my soul
I just put on the right music for the right mood....if however, when i was listening to the music and the synergy was nt there....then I would probably turn it off.
So far i consider myself very lucky....never had it happen
Me too, most times music makes me feel better, however, the degree of satisfaction I get will vary on my state of mind, and if I'm ''audibly tired'' or not.
That's very nice of you to say Jay.
I like to talk about the hardware part of our hobby as much as the next guy, but I'm willing to discuss any other subjects that are related to the enjoyment of our hobby.
So far, I have concluded that, health, mood, expectations, hearing fatigue, tiredness, system synergy, bias, hardware quality, and software quality, can all have an impact on the level of satisfaction we'll get from a listening session.
HPiper
Headphoneus Supremus
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I find I am always in the right mood for 'something' . That is why I have so much music and several headphones. It is just a matter of finding the right music on the right headphone.
HPiper
Headphoneus Supremus
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Based on the results of all the tests you have done so far, you should just throw all those other headphones away and keep the PS1000's.
stacker45
Headphoneus Supremus
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ruthieandjohn
Stumbling towards enlightenment
(Formerly known as kayandjohn.)
I think that it is the larger sound stage of the PS1000, much as a result of its over-ear pads, and the greater transparency, "you-are-there" feel of the PS1000 for which Grados are known, as well as the better subbass, that put it ahead of the wonderful HP1000s in my particular rankings. It is immediately clear to me (@stacker45 if you have PS1000s to compare, see if you agree) that the PS1000 has a clear, unmuffled transparency that the HP1000 does not... I think that the HP1000 predated the Grado signature of that ultra transparent signature(i.e. no cloth in the way, no corners around which music plays... you are THERE).
It is not surprising that, as good as the HP1000 is, Grado has continued to improve, and its current flagship might do some things that the original one did not. That's fine by me. I treasure my HP1000s!
And the GS1000e was pushed down because of that "tubbiness" to its bass. I suspect, since at least this reviewer excoriates his GS1000e sound when it was under 30 hours, that the fact that mine probably has less than 20 hours of use might mean that tubbiness will tighten up! I will try again after many more hours.
But like your kids, good and bad, slim and fat, smart and , er, "challenged," I love ALL my Grados as family members!
rovopio
Headphoneus Supremus
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the HP1 looks so awesome though. Now if anybody is selling their Bushmills... (in 3 months or so)... i want them.
ruthieandjohn
Stumbling towards enlightenment
(Formerly known as kayandjohn.)
Comparing the Grado PS1000, PS500, and PS500 with PS1000 Pads
In my post a page back (here), I compared the three top-of-the-line Grado headphones, all with "1000" in their model numbers (the PS1000, HP1000, and GS1000). Using an aggregation of comparisons of headphone performance on 10 acoustic events, I showed a very strong preference for the PS1000 over the others.
The PS1000 is one of two headphones in the Grado "Professional Series" ("PS"). The other headphone, the PS500, lists for $600 rather than the $1700 of the PS1000 and is on ear rather than over ear. Although it comes with the L "bowl" on-ear pads, one can replace them for the over-ear G pads that the PS1000 uses.
Hence, I compared a PS1000, PS500, and PS500 with G pads, moving the PS500 to the over-ear design of the PS1000.
Test Method:
My test method was identical to that used on the test earlier in this thread (here). I used the Joseph Grado HPA-1 amp for all cases. Because most of the tests of acoustic features involve a very brief (5 - 10 sec) snippet of music, I introduced the use of a digital loop, allowing me to play and replay the few seconds of the particular test repeatedly as I switched from one headphone to another. This minimized the time interval between different headphones and allowed greater repetition, with the hope of improving test accuracy.
Headphones Tested:
I compared the Grado PS1000 (non e version), the Grado PS500 (non e non i version) with the over-ear "G CUSH" pads, and the same PS500 with its original on-ear L pads ("bowls").
Grado PS1000 headphones. These have the Turbulent Labs dark brown leather headband cover.
Grado PS500 headphones with PS1000 over-ear G Cush pads instead of original pads
Grado PS500 headphones with original on-ear "L" bowl pads.
One effect of replacing the on-ear pad with the over-ear pad is that it moves the driver further from the ear. As will be verified in the comparisons, this has the effect of increasing the apparent distance of the sound sources and of increasing the sound stage. Hence, I looked at the thickness of the headphones, comparing the PS500 with the over-ear G pad on one earpiece and the original on-ear bowl on the other.
The ruler on the top of the two PS1000 cups (left), the PS500 with L (middle) and with G (right) shows the greater depth provided by the G cush.
The G cush on the PS500 (far right) appears to give slightly less depth than the PS1000; however, the PS1000 has a rim around the screen opening (see first picture) that adds about that height, so it is likely that the diaphram is the same distance from tghe ear on either.
As the depth is increased by replacing the on-ear L with the over-ear G on the PS500, there is also an effect on the headphone spectrum. This effect has been measured on the Grado SR225i, where innerfidelity.com has published in their "Resources - Data Sheets" the spectral response of the same headphone with original on-ear and new over-ear pads. The result shown in their spectrum is that moving from the on-ear to the over-ear suppresses the frequency response from 1 KHz to 3.5 KHz and increases the frequency response from 5.5 KHz to 8 KHz.
The amount of spectral change, as a function of frequency, obtained by moving from L to G on the SR225i, in dB, was applied to the PS500 frequency spectrum to estimate a PS500 frequency spectrum with the change to over-ear G pads. The plot below shows the PS1000 spectrum (blue), PS500 spectrum with L pads (red) and estimated PS500 spectrum with G pads, using the same spectral change as measured for the SR225i headphones. The PS500 (L pads) shows a clear frequency dropoff compared to the PS100, starting at about 1.4 KHz. The G pads accenuate that difference at vocal frequencies but mitigate it at higher frequencies, perhaps adding a bit more sparkle to the PS500.
PS1000 (blue) and PS500 (red) spectral as measured by headphone.com shows a severe high-frequency drop-off of the PS500; changing to G cush (black curve, estimated response) accentuates this drop-off at voice frequencies but mitigates it at higher frequencies.
Test Results:
In short, comparing the PS500 with over-ear G cush pads by listening comes very close to the PS1000. The largest difference in the two is that the PS1000 soundstage is still larger than the PS500/G, which in turn is larger than the PS500. I would characterize the difference as such that if one were listening to them side by side in a blind test, one would perhaps guess the right headphone 75% of the time (remember, if they sounded identical, random choice would give a correct choice figure of 50%... this figure is better than chance but by no means certain of the difference between PS1000 and PS500/G.)
Comparing the PS500 to the PS500 with over-ear pads provides differences that are immediately and easily apparent. The PS500 moves the music closer to the ear, increasing transparency and some high-frequency detail, but also, as compared with either headphone with the G cush, taking a small step toward congestion of the type seen in closed headphones.
Comparison of 10 acoustic features for the PS1000, PS500&G pads, and original PS500. Blue (3 points) indicates the winner of the comparison of the row; red (2) is second place, yellow (1) is third; ties for first are purple (2.5 points), and for second are orange (1.5 points).
More subtle differences occur in some of the 10 acoustic tests that improve the performance of the PS500 with original L pads over that of the PS500 with G cush, though the most overwhelming difference is the soundstage improvement brought on by the G.
As a result, the PS1000 ends up more highly rated across the 10 comparisons (22 points), while both PS500s remain at 19 points each. This shows up the fact that the features, weighted equally in the score, do not weigh equally in practice. Soundstage is very highly weighted in practice, while some of the features in which the PS500 shine ("drum twang," "bassfinger pluck"), are of lesser importance. Transparency, however, is an important feature, and the PS500 outshines the G Cush versions.
So... if someone wishes to come very close to what a $1700 PS1000 sounds like, for example while saving up to buy it, one can use the PS500 ($600) with G cush pads ($45) as a reasonable approximation.
In my post a page back (here), I compared the three top-of-the-line Grado headphones, all with "1000" in their model numbers (the PS1000, HP1000, and GS1000). Using an aggregation of comparisons of headphone performance on 10 acoustic events, I showed a very strong preference for the PS1000 over the others.
The PS1000 is one of two headphones in the Grado "Professional Series" ("PS"). The other headphone, the PS500, lists for $600 rather than the $1700 of the PS1000 and is on ear rather than over ear. Although it comes with the L "bowl" on-ear pads, one can replace them for the over-ear G pads that the PS1000 uses.
Hence, I compared a PS1000, PS500, and PS500 with G pads, moving the PS500 to the over-ear design of the PS1000.
Test Method:
My test method was identical to that used on the test earlier in this thread (here). I used the Joseph Grado HPA-1 amp for all cases. Because most of the tests of acoustic features involve a very brief (5 - 10 sec) snippet of music, I introduced the use of a digital loop, allowing me to play and replay the few seconds of the particular test repeatedly as I switched from one headphone to another. This minimized the time interval between different headphones and allowed greater repetition, with the hope of improving test accuracy.
Headphones Tested:
I compared the Grado PS1000 (non e version), the Grado PS500 (non e non i version) with the over-ear "G CUSH" pads, and the same PS500 with its original on-ear L pads ("bowls").
Grado PS1000 headphones. These have the Turbulent Labs dark brown leather headband cover.
Grado PS500 headphones with PS1000 over-ear G Cush pads instead of original pads
Grado PS500 headphones with original on-ear "L" bowl pads.
One effect of replacing the on-ear pad with the over-ear pad is that it moves the driver further from the ear. As will be verified in the comparisons, this has the effect of increasing the apparent distance of the sound sources and of increasing the sound stage. Hence, I looked at the thickness of the headphones, comparing the PS500 with the over-ear G pad on one earpiece and the original on-ear bowl on the other.
The ruler on the top of the two PS1000 cups (left), the PS500 with L (middle) and with G (right) shows the greater depth provided by the G cush.
The G cush on the PS500 (far right) appears to give slightly less depth than the PS1000; however, the PS1000 has a rim around the screen opening (see first picture) that adds about that height, so it is likely that the diaphram is the same distance from tghe ear on either.
As the depth is increased by replacing the on-ear L with the over-ear G on the PS500, there is also an effect on the headphone spectrum. This effect has been measured on the Grado SR225i, where innerfidelity.com has published in their "Resources - Data Sheets" the spectral response of the same headphone with original on-ear and new over-ear pads. The result shown in their spectrum is that moving from the on-ear to the over-ear suppresses the frequency response from 1 KHz to 3.5 KHz and increases the frequency response from 5.5 KHz to 8 KHz.
The amount of spectral change, as a function of frequency, obtained by moving from L to G on the SR225i, in dB, was applied to the PS500 frequency spectrum to estimate a PS500 frequency spectrum with the change to over-ear G pads. The plot below shows the PS1000 spectrum (blue), PS500 spectrum with L pads (red) and estimated PS500 spectrum with G pads, using the same spectral change as measured for the SR225i headphones. The PS500 (L pads) shows a clear frequency dropoff compared to the PS100, starting at about 1.4 KHz. The G pads accenuate that difference at vocal frequencies but mitigate it at higher frequencies, perhaps adding a bit more sparkle to the PS500.
PS1000 (blue) and PS500 (red) spectral as measured by headphone.com shows a severe high-frequency drop-off of the PS500; changing to G cush (black curve, estimated response) accentuates this drop-off at voice frequencies but mitigates it at higher frequencies.
Test Results:
In short, comparing the PS500 with over-ear G cush pads by listening comes very close to the PS1000. The largest difference in the two is that the PS1000 soundstage is still larger than the PS500/G, which in turn is larger than the PS500. I would characterize the difference as such that if one were listening to them side by side in a blind test, one would perhaps guess the right headphone 75% of the time (remember, if they sounded identical, random choice would give a correct choice figure of 50%... this figure is better than chance but by no means certain of the difference between PS1000 and PS500/G.)
Comparing the PS500 to the PS500 with over-ear pads provides differences that are immediately and easily apparent. The PS500 moves the music closer to the ear, increasing transparency and some high-frequency detail, but also, as compared with either headphone with the G cush, taking a small step toward congestion of the type seen in closed headphones.
Comparison of 10 acoustic features for the PS1000, PS500&G pads, and original PS500. Blue (3 points) indicates the winner of the comparison of the row; red (2) is second place, yellow (1) is third; ties for first are purple (2.5 points), and for second are orange (1.5 points).
More subtle differences occur in some of the 10 acoustic tests that improve the performance of the PS500 with original L pads over that of the PS500 with G cush, though the most overwhelming difference is the soundstage improvement brought on by the G.
As a result, the PS1000 ends up more highly rated across the 10 comparisons (22 points), while both PS500s remain at 19 points each. This shows up the fact that the features, weighted equally in the score, do not weigh equally in practice. Soundstage is very highly weighted in practice, while some of the features in which the PS500 shine ("drum twang," "bassfinger pluck"), are of lesser importance. Transparency, however, is an important feature, and the PS500 outshines the G Cush versions.
So... if someone wishes to come very close to what a $1700 PS1000 sounds like, for example while saving up to buy it, one can use the PS500 ($600) with G cush pads ($45) as a reasonable approximation.
Wildcatsare1
Headphoneus Supremus
Does anybody have experience with the Little Dot Mk III and Grados (not the Mk II already have a Lyr 2 for hybred use)?
sayitaintsoap
New Head-Fier
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So anyone try out the new Egrado behind the neck headphones? I couldn't find anything about them on here or Reddit. I think they subjectively sound better than my SR80e's and they look and feel great to boot. For only $50 I'm very happy with this purchase.
http://www.gradolabs.com/headphones/prestige-series/item/41-egrado
http://www.gradolabs.com/headphones/prestige-series/item/41-egrado
stacker45
Headphoneus Supremus
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You know John, I was just thinking how lucky we are, to own the entire 1000 familly.
Now, to answer you question, of all my Grados, my PS1000 are my favorite. Yes, the HP1000 have THE flattest graph, and are THE most neutral sounding headphones that Grado has ever produced, but I still prefer the PS1000's exiting sound, over the HP1000's more accurate but less exiting presentation. However, swapping the HP1000's stock (flat) earpads, with the L-cush, will bump the level of exitment up a notch, but you're also going to lose a bit of bass extension.
Wow John!, that last phrase, ''I love a ALL my Grados as familly members'', moved me so much, that it actually brought tears to my eyes.
By the way guys, I'd like to have your opinion about this, should I go with a big heart, and have, ''Grado PS1000'' written Inside of it, or an actual life size image of the PS1000, I'm sorry to bother you with this, but I have to decide asap, because my appointment at the tatoo parlor is tomorrow.
