Grace Design x Massdrop m9XX DAC/Amp Review: First Impressions
Mar 21, 2016 at 2:43 AM Post #1,276 of 2,153
Yeah... right.
rolleyes.gif
Moving right along.


In as much as I measure the stability of a headphone when driven by an amp or DAC, as well as high volume distortion, subjective personal opinion and 'experience' is not my concern. Whether or not I prefer the sound or the utility of another amp simply doesn't matter. If the amp drives the headphones well, that's all that matters to an objective rational. 
 
As I said above, I prefer using my LinnenberG/Hilo combination. That's personal, but I'd never argue that the combo drives the HD800 or HD880s better unless through hardware testing at the SAME volumes, it actually [does]. 

[edit]
 
Mar 21, 2016 at 7:15 AM Post #1,277 of 2,153
Really? I don't find Lyr 2 to be tube like much. How about the stock Valhalla 2 tubes? Does it make the HD800 slower and a smaller soundstage though? I had a Vali before which I paired with a HD650, and I absolutely hated that combo since it just made the 650 more gooey and claustrophobic. Ever since then I avoided tube amps.
try changing tubes rather than switching amps completely. Genalex gold lions isn't gooey at all. I paired it with my hd650 and prefer it over my 68 orange globes for rock. 68 orange globes do make the hd650 sound really natural with vocals.
 
Mar 21, 2016 at 7:27 AM Post #1,278 of 2,153
Really? I don't find Lyr 2 to be tube like much. How about the stock Valhalla 2 tubes? Does it make the HD800 slower and a smaller soundstage though? I had a Vali before which I paired with a HD650, and I absolutely hated that combo since it just made the 650 more gooey and claustrophobic. Ever since then I avoided tube amps.
In my case valhalla2 actually increased my hd650s soundstage and it got even bigger after switching to gold lion tubes. Stock valhalla tubes bass isnt as tight and i find the sound of it too soft after burn in. Someone in the hd650 thread told me that lyr2 has more bass slam and is warmer than valhalla2 so immediately i thought "oh tube like sound". But if lyr2 doesn't sound tube like to you and you like it then why not go for it. Lyr2 is probably a better choice since it can pretty much run all your headphones except for e stats of course.
 
Mar 21, 2016 at 1:56 PM Post #1,279 of 2,153
Good sub-$500 alternative? The Schiit Valhalla 2 does a great job with the HD800 (and the HD800S, too).


Does the Valhalla 2 make the sound more tube like? I like the Lyr 2 because it's sounds neutral. What makes you choose Valhalla 2 over Lyr 2?


The tubes it ships with aren't particularly warm, it's one of the more neutral OTL amps I've heard. I don't care for the Lyr because I found it to be rather noisy and grainy, it's definitely an amp for difficult to drive `phones.
 
Mar 21, 2016 at 10:09 PM Post #1,280 of 2,153
After some testing with Bifrost multibit/Lyr 2, I decided to also return my m9XX. Luckily massdrop was kind enough to allow me to do so for a full refund. Also canceled the THX00 order in favor of a IEM. Going to look for a good deal on a used pair of Valhalla 2/Bifrost uber/4490 for my HD800.
 
Mar 21, 2016 at 10:33 PM Post #1,281 of 2,153
  After some testing with Bifrost multibit/Lyr 2, I decided to also return my m9XX. Luckily massdrop was kind enough to allow me to do so for a full refund. Also canceled the THX00 order in favor of a IEM. Going to look for a good deal on a used pair of Valhalla 2/Bifrost uber/4490 for my HD800.


Wow, didn't know MD allowed such things. Props to them
 
Mar 22, 2016 at 12:47 AM Post #1,282 of 2,153
  After some testing with Bifrost multibit/Lyr 2, I decided to also return my m9XX. Luckily massdrop was kind enough to allow me to do so for a full refund. Also canceled the THX00 order in favor of a IEM. Going to look for a good deal on a used pair of Valhalla 2/Bifrost uber/4490 for my HD800.

 
I'd like to clarify... the Bifrost Multibit/Lyr 2 combo goes for nearly $1,000, so it shouldn't be all that surprising that one would prefer that stack over the m9xx. 
 
Mar 22, 2016 at 1:14 AM Post #1,283 of 2,153
I'd like to clarify... the Bifrost Multibit/Lyr 2 combo goes for nearly $1,000, so it shouldn't be all that surprising that one would prefer that stack over the m9xx. 


It's not that it's better, it has a completely different sound signature that I think strengthens the HD800's strengths even more. I'm also planning to get the non-multibit Bifrost and the Valhalla 2, and I've seen it go for $500 for the pair. The difference in sound quality should be very minimal.

Upon further evaluation of the m9XX, I realized that I didn't like its sound signature at all. It's a very good quality DAC/amp, but I found it too dark, the treble rolled off too much (which could be good for someone finding the HD800 too bright), much less airy with a smaller soundstage, and not as exciting to listen to as the Schiit stack. I remember even comparing to my STX II sound card, when I first got the m9XX, that I think it's too boring sounding. I thought at that time that's how all higher end DAC's and amps sound like, until I heard the Schiit stack. It's definitely more of a personal preference, but I think my tastes align with Schiit's house sound since I also massively preferred the Modi/Magni with my HD650 as well. I also initially got the m9XX to also pair with lower impedance headphones, since I also ordered the THX00, but I also canceled that order since I realized I'd rather use that money to get a better IEM. The m9XX's greatest strength was also that it is more portable and has a significantly smaller footprint than the Schiit stack, which was the deciding factor for me to get it initially. But ultimately I decided that the sound wasn't right for me and I didn't care for any of its extra features. I'd rather hide a big clunky piece of metal aka Schiit stack behind my monitor.
 
Mar 22, 2016 at 7:40 PM Post #1,284 of 2,153
So I'm just now breaking this bad boy in with my HD 800 S. So far, it seems like a good pairing. The 800 S is driven to appropriate volume levels with HP mode - depending on source, 75-90 is the range of maximum volume before hearing damage is a possibility (measuring with a dB meter).
 
I was coming from a Schiit Uber stack. My Magni 2 Uber is currently on the way to Schiit for repair, but I'll try to compare some more when I get it back. At first I felt like maybe the Schiit combo did a better job with umph from the bass, but listening to Ultra Music Festival on SXM with the m9XX and a slight EQ in Windows has me really enjoying it.
 
Quick question... in the Windows play device settings, for sound format, what should I be choosing? e.g. 16-bit through 32-bit, and which kHz setting? Right now I'm at 32-bit, 96 kHz (read some test article awhile back saying 192 kHz is actually detrimental to sound since practically no content is that in-depth - don't know if it's true, or if 32-bit would produce the same effect. My music is all from Google Music's streaming service, and any other content is Bluray and PC games.
 
Mar 22, 2016 at 7:45 PM Post #1,285 of 2,153
  So I'm just now breaking this bad boy in with my HD 800 S. So far, it seems like a good pairing. The 800 S is driven to appropriate volume levels with HP mode - depending on source, 75-90 is the range of maximum volume before hearing damage is a possibility (measuring with a dB meter).
 
I was coming from a Schiit Uber stack. My Magni 2 Uber is currently on the way to Schiit for repair, but I'll try to compare some more when I get it back. At first I felt like maybe the Schiit combo did a better job with umph from the bass, but listening to Ultra Music Festival on SXM with the m9XX and a slight EQ in Windows has me really enjoying it.
 
Quick question... in the Windows play device settings, for sound format, what should I be choosing? e.g. 16-bit through 32-bit, and which kHz setting? Right now I'm at 32-bit, 96 kHz (read some test article awhile back saying 192 kHz is actually detrimental to sound since practically no content is that in-depth - don't know if it's true, or if 32-bit would produce the same effect. My music is all from Google Music's streaming service, and any other content is Bluray and PC games.


32 bit is fine. Keep kHz at 44.1 unless you have files higher than that to avoid upsampling. 
 
Mar 22, 2016 at 7:56 PM Post #1,286 of 2,153
 
32 bit is fine. Keep kHz at 44.1 unless you have files higher than that to avoid upsampling. 

Thanks for the tip.
 
As far as crossfeed goes - something entirely new to me until I read about it for this DAC. For a natural listening experience, it seems like a good idea to leave it on? I definitely prefer the "feeling" of speakers over headphones. I've also left the digital filter to the default option - not too sure how to handle that either.
 
Mar 22, 2016 at 8:07 PM Post #1,287 of 2,153
  Thanks for the tip.
 
As far as crossfeed goes - something entirely new to me until I read about it for this DAC. For a natural listening experience, it seems like a good idea to leave it on? I definitely prefer the "feeling" of speakers over headphones. I've also left the digital filter to the default option - not too sure how to handle that either.


Experiment with them and choose what you like. For filters the differences are subtle and almost impossible to differentiate at times for me, but I liked F3 best. I tend to leave CF off. All of the settings are up to you, so just switch between them and choose what you like.
 
Mar 22, 2016 at 10:41 PM Post #1,288 of 2,153
I just acquired this unit today, I will spend some quality time listening to it over the next few days and write up a review!  The main headphones I will be testing it with will be: SRH 1540, Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro (250ohm), and the t70p.
 
Mar 23, 2016 at 11:26 AM Post #1,289 of 2,153
  Thanks for the tip.
 
As far as crossfeed goes - something entirely new to me until I read about it for this DAC. For a natural listening experience, it seems like a good idea to leave it on? I definitely prefer the "feeling" of speakers over headphones. I've also left the digital filter to the default option - not too sure how to handle that either.


I like crossfeed a lot, and only really turn it off when listening to binaurally recorded music.  For the filters, I tend to use F3 for well recorded music and F1 for poorly recorded music.  
 
Mar 23, 2016 at 12:23 PM Post #1,290 of 2,153
Here are my first impressions of this device, compared to the m903 I have been using with much joy for several years.
I use the m903 and the m9xx as a DAC only, because I have an external electrostatic amp (Stax SRM-717) for my Stax SR-007BL (i.e. a Mk.1). Thus, I cannot give impressions of their dynamic headphone amp sections.
For people unfamiliar with Stax, I can summarize the quality of my system as follows: While not top-of-the-line in the electrostatic world, mainly because the amp is holding it back a bit, my system is certainly highly resolving and high-end, and since acquiring it I have been cured of upgraditis. Yes, it's possible.
 
I have the m9xx hooked up to the unbalanced analog input of the m903, and have volume matched (by ear, at level 87 on the m9xx) it to the DAC section of the m903. This way I can easily switch between both devices in one second while listening by selecting either the USB or unbalanced input on the m903, and by switching the output device in foobar.
 
Let me first say that both devices sound remarkably similar! The m9xx does certainly not sound worse anywhere, which is remarkable for a unit with a power supply this small. I am impressed. I have always been fond of the sound quality of the m903 as a DAC, so I am very happy with the sound quality of the m9xx as well. I experienced in the past, with my Naim CD5X, what an upgraded power supply can do, hence my appreciation for the sound quality of the m9xx with a small switching power supply.
The only improvement of the m9xx over the m903 I can hear, is a slightly better spaciousness. Spatial information is presented a wee bit cleaner and better defined.
However, if I were to participate in a double blind test, I would not be able to discern between both devices with certainty. The difference is that tiny. This is not to say that someone else with golden ears wouldn't be able to do this, but over the last years I have become somewhat less interested and/or receptive in/of these extremely subtle differences between devices, as long as the sound quality is at an acceptable level (and the bar is set high). Both devices (m9xx and m903) are clearly above this acceptable level as a DAC. They both outperform any source I owned before (see my profile if you care).
 
Obvious improvements of the m9xx are its DSD capability and the fact the crossfeed is applied to the line outputs as well. This is a logical consequence of the fact that the line outputs are tied to the headphones outputs, but in the case of the m903 (and m920 too), the line and headphone outputs are separate, meaning that the crossfeed circuitry is not available if you use the line outputs. For most people, this is a logical thing, because they likely use the line outputs to drive a speaker system with, but if you use an external headphone amp like me, it is nice to have crossfeed applied there as well.
What's obvious furthermore is that the m9xx is much more limited I/O-wise. In the past, the superb I/O handling of the m903 (just like the m920) was a major plus for me, but for a while now I have been using it as a USB DAC only, and now the tables have turned, as currently the smaller footprint of the m9xx is an advantage in my case. This is also one reason why I could not justify an upgrade to the m920 instead of the m9xx.
 
I'll be selling the m903 (offers are welcome :), because I like the DSD and crossfeed functionality of the m9xx, and do not use the I/O capabilities of the m903 anymore, but that's strictly it. Sound-quality-wise, used purely as a DAC, there's no reason to choose one over the other. As I said, I cannot comment on their headphone amp sections.
 

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