Grace Design x Massdrop m9XX DAC/Amp Review: First Impressions
Dec 21, 2015 at 12:58 PM Post #871 of 2,153
so, I did a LOT of listening to the filters over the weekend, and made some notes:
 
The filters are very subtle, so it took quite a while for me to suss out their effects.  They don't so much change the frequency response much, their primary effect is in how they handle the delicate balance of rich, absolute timbral/time accuracy and maximum clarity.  I don't think people realize that this is often a tradeoff, as super compressed music with lots of treble can often cause aliasing distortion with ultra-high-quality DACs.  I think this is a lot of the phenomenon people notice when they say certain top-shelf DACs are "very harsh to bad sources."  Sometimes it's almost like people here relish a DAC that makes pop music sound like crap, as if that's a badge of pride.  Grace, however, decided to give you the option for a more detailed DAC and a more forgiving DAC (to simplify things greatly).
 
F1: This is given the default spot as the filter, and I think for good reason.  It's the setting that will probably sound best, for most people and how they use the m9XX and the music they'll most use for it.  This is the best setting to use if the Grace is both your DAC and your amp and you're listening to compressed music (here I mean a compressed mastering, not as in bitrate, don't take this to be about lossless vs mp3, it's about how it was mastered).  There are two aspects to this setting (like all the settings): fast roll-off and in phase modulation.  The first essentially cuts down on aliasing distortion issues that can happen in highly compressed music with lots of high frequency content.  The second keeps a linear phase response, for maximum preservation of the source signal.  The latter can be bad if you're using an amp that isn't the Grace, ie using the RCA outputs to feed an amp or powered speakers.  Something about how they built the amp section of the Grace seems to do away with the intermodulation issues that can happen with a linear phase.  This intermodulation effect seems to be especially problematic with tubes, which can have microphonic tendencies.  I honestly couldn't tell much difference between F1 and F3, until I put the m9XX in front of my SSHM hybrid tube amp, and there the F3 setting sounded much cleaner than F1.  
 
TL:DR: if you're listening to typical pop/rock music that is loud with a lot of treble, and you're not using an amp after the Grace, this is probably your best setting.  
 
F2: This is probably the most accurate filter, and what would probably measure the best in objective testing.  It is susceptible to aliasing issues with highly compressed, treble music.  ie pop music will sound somewhat harsher with it.  It can also theoretically have intermodulation issues if it's being used with an external amp.  But when using it with well-recorded, non treble-heavy material, and the Grace as an amp, it provides the ultimate in transparency.  
 
TL;DR: if you're listening to well recorded and mastered music and not using an external amp, this is your no-compromise absolute transparency setting.
 
F3: This setting is the ultimate "fix problems" setting, everything will sound good out of this setting, regardless of what is going through it, and you'll never have to worry about problems.  It sacrifices a bit of complete transparency to cut down as much as possible on aliasing distortion and intermodulation distortion.  
 
TL;DR: use this if you're listening to highly compressed music with very loud treble and using an external amp out of it (especially at tube amp), or if you're experiencing distortion issues and you're not sure what part of the chain they may be coming from.  
 
F4: This is probably the filter that can, theoretically, get the absolute best sound out of the m9XX's DAC section.  It produces the full, rich tone, without giving worry to aliasing issues in high treble energy music, but shifts the ringing to reduce any intermodulation effects that might happen with an external amp (especially a tube amp)
 
TL;DR: use this if you primarily listen to exceptionally well recorded music and are using an amp (especially tubes) after the m9XX.
 
Dec 21, 2015 at 1:22 PM Post #872 of 2,153
The music I listen to has mastering quality ALL over the map, so I keep my unit on F3 precisely because it seems to be the least picky, most generous filter.  I don't want to have to keep swapping the filters because THIS guy just produces out of his bedroom with FLS.
 
Dec 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM Post #873 of 2,153
Dec 21, 2015 at 1:38 PM Post #874 of 2,153
  The music I listen to has mastering quality ALL over the map, so I keep my unit on F3 precisely because it seems to be the least picky, most generous filter.  I don't want to have to keep swapping the filters because THIS guy just produces out of his bedroom with FLS.


yeah, I'd agree with this.  I honestly can almost never tell a difference between F1 & F3, except when I used the m9XX as a DAC in front of a tube amp.  In all other cases, I couldn't even notice when it was switched.  In front of a tube amp, there was a noticeable increase in transparency with F3 vs F1.  But when the m9XX was being used in regular DAC/amp configuration, I had my girlfriend change between F1 and F3, and I couldn't even tell when it had happened.  But if something doesn't sound quite right, my first move would definitely be to switch to F3, it's definitely the swiss army knife problem solver setting.  
 
I do use F2 a lot when I'm in a jazz or classical mood though.  HE400i + m9XX + F2 + Kind of Blue AIFF = sublime.  
 
I'd say my balance has been:
 
F1 70%
F2 15%
F3 15%
 
I don't really ever use F4.
 
Dec 21, 2015 at 5:18 PM Post #875 of 2,153
Well while you all have been enjoying your jazz and your classical and whatever I've been abusing mine with all manner of unholy electronic diatribe.  Listening primarily through the Fostex TH-X00 (which was no doubt designed in tandem with this DA) is really the only way to properly hear some of this, at least that's how it feels.  Needless to say, I love it. 
 
Go on, try it.  Your music is too beautiful.
 
Dec 22, 2015 at 9:13 AM Post #877 of 2,153
Drop is now open again
 
Dec 22, 2015 at 9:14 AM Post #878 of 2,153
Missed out on this the first time, think I'll go for it to replace my original magni/modi.  Is it sad that the LED display is actually a factor in my decision?  I'm really, really fond of having specific details like that.  >_>
 
Dec 22, 2015 at 9:41 AM Post #879 of 2,153
Only 130 units left.  I think this is one of the most expensive drops that ever happened, on a site meant for cheapskates.  Though they moved a few lotoo paws and AK240s.
 
Dec 22, 2015 at 9:50 AM Post #880 of 2,153
  Missed out on this the first time, think I'll go for it to replace my original magni/modi.  Is it sad that the LED display is actually a factor in my decision?  I'm really, really fond of having specific details like that.  >_>


no, I find the LED very practically useful.  Especially because the steps are actual half decibels, instead of like most amp knobs, where the only relationship between any of the points is that clockwise gets louder, but after that you're on your on.  I generally play my HE400i about 10 dB higher on the m9XX than the THX00, so if I'm listening to a loud rock song, I can precisely volume match, but without having to re-do everything, I can then volume match on a softly recorded sonata.  It also makes me much more cognizant of slowly creeping up the volume dial.  I've begun to realize when I have that urge, that it's time for a break, instead of an unmarked/meaninglessly marked amp knob where you can end up listening at double the volume over time by a bunch of small turns.  
 
The m9XX sounds incredible, but the reason why it has replaced all my other DACs and amps is because it sounds incredible while also being incredibly well designed and a pleasure to use.
 
Dec 22, 2015 at 10:45 AM Post #882 of 2,153
So are there any better options out there in this price range? I don't want to miss out on this drop.

I've looked at the O2 dac/amp combo, but I can't ignore the great Grace unit reviews.


If you don't have any ultra hard to drive headphones, and you don't listen at (to be frank, dangerous) really high listening levels, then I don't think there's a better option for the money, even putting form factor aside.  There are options that are *as good* in the price range, but nothing better.  A bifrost 4490 and a magni2, to me, sounds exactly the same as the m9XX, for exactly the same amount of money.  However, I like the form factor and features of the m9XX better.  I can toss the m9XX in a messenger bag pocket, whereas the Schiit stack needs to be more or less permanently on a desk.  The m9XX is easily portable (though not mobile), whereas the Schiit is moveable, but not portable, if that makes sense.
 
Also, I view a crossfeed solution as a borderline requirement as well, and the m9XX has a very well implemented one built in.  
 
Dec 22, 2015 at 11:39 AM Post #883 of 2,153
 
If you don't have any ultra hard to drive headphones, and you don't listen at (to be frank, dangerous) really high listening levels, then I don't think there's a better option for the money, even putting form factor aside.  There are options that are *as good* in the price range, but nothing better.  A bifrost 4490 and a magni2, to me, sounds exactly the same as the m9XX, for exactly the same amount of money.  However, I like the form factor and features of the m9XX better.  I can toss the m9XX in a messenger bag pocket, whereas the Schiit stack needs to be more or less permanently on a desk.  The m9XX is easily portable (though not mobile), whereas the Schiit is moveable, but not portable, if that makes sense.
 
Also, I view a crossfeed solution as a borderline requirement as well, and the m9XX has a very well implemented one built in.  


I too have heard them and found them to sound very similar. However, I'm not sure if it's just me but I found the Magni 2 Uber to be a tad harsher and brighter. More cold sounding I would say.
 
Dec 22, 2015 at 11:59 AM Post #884 of 2,153
 
I too have heard them and found them to sound very similar. However, I'm not sure if it's just me but I found the Magni 2 Uber to be a tad harsher and brighter. More cold sounding I would say.

m9xx versus Magni 2 (not Uber) I solidly prefer the m9xx - I found the Schiit amplifier to be very slightly more harsh and brittle on the highs, where my ears tire most quickly. I will get to hear the Uber at a February meet (just missed hearing it about a week ago at a mini-meet, which was simply too short).
 
Similarly, I have not heard the O2 - only The Element. And in that case, I found The Element to have a slight "echo" issue. It was as-if the sound wasn't sent cleanly through the amplifier section. I did not notice though, until I started using other amplifiers.
 
I feel the m9xx is just about the best balance you can get at this price point (and considering that it includes a very competent DAC with excellent headphone features), without having personally heard the Schiit Magni 2 Uber or Schiit Asgard 2. The two other amplifiers I own in the low-price range (Schiit Vali 2 and Meier Audio Corda Rock) are simply a different take. I would not call either better - just different. And that's the great thing about the m9xx, is you can use the outputs to play with sound variations. But it is solid on its own.
 

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