[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the HD800 is a serious and formal headphone. It is not a "fun" headphone. The music sure can be fun though. There is a distinction there.

I think that point is spot on. They aren't headphones for people who are looking for something to make the music fun, they are headphones for people who want the music as it is and nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif One of the best subjective writeups of a headphone I've ever seen. "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Now, if they could only take away some of the price.

I might have to steal that quote for my sig.

I ended up DIY re-cabling my pair, as, even with my arguably neutral system, I felt there was just a touch of harshness in brass instruments, where there shouldn't be any. As well, I wanted just a touch more body to the bass. Now I have that, I'm very satisfied.

 

[wualta]

The quote's from Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. He won't mind if you borrow it. Since you're in Japan, a quote from Lao-Tzu might be appropriate too.

 

[rangen]

This is a very interesting contribution to the HD800 literature. Thank you.

And I owe you an apology, at least in my own mind, because I had concluded from certain of your previous posts that your mind was made up in advance, and that you were not open to whatever it was the HD800 had to offer you. Not that you had to like them, of course, but clearly my conclusion was drastically wrong. Glad I did not give voice to it at the time.

Like you, I struggle to explain the appeal of the HD800s; I think you've done a superior job of it. Neutrality doesn't quite capture it. It's more like the idea that the music is effortlessly painted on a canvas of air. The HD650 has some of that that quality, except that the canvas is a thick heavy woolen scarf, instead of ethereal air.

I do have to confess that, like Skylab, I have found an irritating edge to the HD800s in the mid-highs, which breakin softened, but did not eliminate. What I find strange is that I have equalized to compensate for that, and I find the equalized result to be wonderfully enthralling, and it has continued to be so over a period of months. That's new. Most times, when I equalize, it's a futile attempt to compensate for something I cannot live with, and the artifice of it ultimately drives me away. Not this time. My HD800s, equalized to boost the bass, and tone down in the 4K range and, to a lesser extent, the 8K rage, are magnificent, and I've only come to like them more with time. Somehow their extraordinary naturalness, or ease, or something, manages to overcome my usual rebellion against what I usually find synthetic about equalizing.

I must return to the break in question. During the first 120 hours, I found definite softening of the treble, then basically stability. But there seems to be a second wind to the break in process, because there has been, for the last month, an increasingly comfortable quality to them. I'm hard-pressed to describe it, but if I had to, I'd call it more relaxed. The HD650s did something similar, but earlier, more like 250 hours.

Call it my brain adjusting if you wish. Or call it something that happened to my WA6SE's Sophia Princess after a couple hundred hours or so. But, whatever the cause, I am extremely happy with my (equalized) HD800s these days. Like you, I don't so much think in terms of wanting to listen to an HD800 sound, as just wanting to simply listen to music -- and to hear it as clearly as possible.

 

[rangen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif - the HD800 is not a "funnel" that you have to squeeze or push music through while it shapes it into its specific sound. HD800 is more like a large board or canvas that the recording is placed upon, intact. There seems to be unlimited "headroom"

I want to highlight this, because I think it's the best description of the virtues of the HD800, in contrast to other headphones, that I've read.

 

[mopps]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald North /img/forum/go_quote.gif The several times I've listened to the HD800, I would agree that it is not a bass monster. You can adjust the tonal balance some by adjusting the source (output) impedance driving it. If your amp is near 0 ohm output impedance, try adding 100 ohm resistors in series with each driver.

Yes, add 100 ohm resistors if you don't like fidelity and balance and you'll get cozy sirupy vocals and a cuddly chubby mid-bass.

 

[feifan]

Beagle, great review. I like your description of unlimited soundstage.

One way to enjoy the HD800 is to listen not to what's not there but to what is, what's revealed. Of the cans I have, only the HD800 can reveal layers of sound that I didn't know were there. But you need a quiet environment because a lot of those layers are very soft. This is especially true with bass. The HD800 seems to expose the smallest details in bass that you don't hear with other 'phones. Consequently, when I use other cans with the same recordings, they sound boomy because the details are gone.

Also, you have to resist turning the volume up to get to the softer dynamics because that brightens the rest of the spectrum and results in fatigue. I think this is why some are reporting an irritating brightness. The volume's probably a bit high.

Many will tell you that the HD800 is sensitive to different amps. It is, but when you find the right synergy, you'll know it.

Re the PH100 -- I didn't think the synergy with the HD800 was great. The PH100 is fantastic with the K701, though.

I'm looking forward to your reports as you log more hours on the HD800.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I worry that the HD-800 will be like the K-1000. That is, not fully appreciated until it is discontinued. The K-1000 took plenty of knocks while in production, but it was only truly appreciated in retrospect. I hope that enough people recognize the HD-800 as a full classic that they buy them. With any luck, the HD-800 will be available for many years to come. Particulars of amping and sources still need to be sorted out, but I think it will sort out as one of the greats sooner or later.

 

[atothex]

I don't mind if people don't appreciate it. I wasn't around when K1000s were going for like $400 new... I wouldn't mind if something similar happened to the HD800s.

 

[ford2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I worry that the HD-800 will be like the K-1000. That is, not fully appreciated until it is discontinued. The K-1000 took plenty of knocks while in production, but it was only truly appreciated in retrospect. I hope that enough people recognize the HD-800 as a full classic that they buy them. With any luck, the HD-800 will be available for many years to come. Particulars of amping and sources still need to be sorted out, but I think it will sort out as one of the greats sooner or later.

It would be appreciated a lot more if Senn lowered the price,instead they have made every effort to keep them at a percieved elite level[expensive].
Every inch of the marketing strategy/dealerships etc was designed to keep the price high.
If the HD800 fails then its purely because of the above,if production was bolstered and retailed through Amazon I have no doubt that they would be in the $600 bracket assuring them of a 10 fold increase in sales for many years to come.

 

[Drumonron]

Nice review, Beagle and welcome to the HD800 side...I've enjoyed them thoroughly and have had zero regrets. To me they are an extreme treat to my ears and in another league.

To Ford2...I disagree with your voodoo economics. I'm going to suggest that Sennheiser is keeping them at their current price because they need to in order to make a profit...hey, someones gotta be the devils advocate. I do not think Senn is keeping them at the price, as you say, "to keep them at a perceived elite level."
Can't disagree enough. Also, what do you say about the Grado pricing of the PS1000s? I'm interested to know that.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif The quote's from Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. He won't mind if you borrow it. Since you're in Japan, a quote from Lao-Tzu might be appropriate too.

The quote I'm thinking of adding to my sig atm is:

"The trouble with most people is not what they don't know, but what they know for certain that isn't true." -- Mark Twain

I've noticed, by the way, that not everyone has quite the same degree of upper-mids and treble peaks as those with early serial numbers. It has made me wonder about people's different impressions of them.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Negative - I'm not sure I hear anything in the lower bass. I certainly don't hear any "impact" or thud. The bottom end is wonderfully balanced overall, but I'm not sure that it drops down when called for

I am a bit concerned about this. My own speaker system has been carefully tuned to be flat all the way down to 22Hz (using SMS-1 subwoofer equalization) running from a tight sounding sealed subwoofer, and if I pay $1800 CAD for a headphone, I expect that it do the same with some of the impact that I get from my speaker system. Most headphones fall flat in the critical impact region of 30-60Hz, and based on some recent reviews, I think that I might find them lacking in this area. I am all for the HD800's transparency which I should find superior to my D7000, but whereas the D7000 overdelivers on the bass, I have a feeling that the HD800 will underdeliver.

Eventually I have to get out and find one to audition....if my local dealers get on the ball.

 

[Cankin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you. Can you get those already assembled?

Many professional DIYer's can build you one

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver /img/forum/go_quote.gif Eventually I have to get out and find one to audition....if my local dealers get on the ball.

I've seen one at Bay Bloor Radio

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilipHan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyways, to make a long story short, when hanging out in the studio/recording room I remember listening to recordings through speakers and headphones and they just lifted my head up into the clouds and I day dreamed even though I hated classical music back then (just because my parents were musicians lol) Anyways, I'm still only 17 now and so can plan a life of hard work so I can afford a lifestyle of an Audiophile

That was the age I was when I got the bug. I began to work full-time and all my pay went towards music and equipment. Wish I could do it all over again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Neutrality doesn't quite capture it. It's more like the idea that the music is effortlessly painted on a canvas of air. The HD650 has some of that that quality, except that the canvas is a thick heavy woolen scarf, instead of ethereal air.

I think that when I am listening to the HD800, I am used to waiting for a headphone to "do it's thing", add it's contribution. Since this does not seem to happen with the HD800, it's like something is not taking place that should be, and it is like a distraction in itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, you have to resist turning the volume up to get to the softer dynamics because that brightens the rest of the spectrum and results in fatigue. I think this is why some are reporting an irritating brightness. The volume's probably a bit high.

I agree fully. The magic kind of disappears if you crank it up. Of course, there is no need to crank it up if everything is there at at a lower listening level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am a bit concerned about this. My own speaker system has been carefully tuned to be flat all the way down to 22Hz (using SMS-1 subwoofer equalization) running from a tight sounding sealed subwoofer, and if I pay $1800 CAD for a headphone, I expect that it do the same with some of the impact that I get from my speaker system. Most headphones fall flat in the critical impact region of 30-60Hz, and based on some recent reviews, I think that I might find them lacking in this area.

The bass on the HD800 is level and evenly responsed, for the most part. It's just that I feel that since the mid and upper bass are not exaggerated (as they are on so many other 'phones), I should hear the lower bass more clearly, since a lack of bass boost in the upper part will not obscure the lower area. I haven't been hearing the lower throbs and thuds. Not yet anyway.

 

[Geek]

Beagle,

I've made every basshead I know go crazy over the HD800, they clearly dominate the HD650 in terms of low end extension and accuracy. The HD800 trounces subwoofer bass tests.

I think I can guess at why you're having difficulties with the bottom: consider that Sennheiser went to extreme ends to reduce earpiece resonance - you won't "feel" the bass as much on the side of the head unless you crank the volume. Having said that, I hear a lot more bottom end at lower volumes. Bass guitars really have live prescence with the HD800, and you really get the thick bottom end on symphonic music rendered properly.

It could also just be your particular rig. I use a headroom maxed out home built in 2003 and a headroom micro DAC. It's a very extended sound on both ends of the frequency spectrum.